Water pipe "bursting" like drain "bursting".

Discussion in 'Plumbing Tools and Equipment' started by Jamesplumbing06, Mar 22, 2016.

Help Support Plumbing Forums by donating using the link above.
  1. Mar 22, 2016 #1

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    ,
    Ok so for a few jobs now over 10 years I have fed 3/4" pex thru a 1" pic busted line. Using the old line as a sleeve and no digging. Pushing works great for up to 100'. But last week I did a 1/2" line thru 1" 500' with pull string. I know your not suppose to feed a house with 1/"2. But guess what? Meter only 5/8" gate valve is smaller. I eliminated gate valve. Most of your lines in house are 1/2". Only 1 bath with older retired couldn't afford digging a new water line. So leave your comments about pipe size alone.
    My real question. I need a plumb bob shaped tool with hole thru center for 3/8" airline cable to feed thru and secure. Needs 2cutting blades that just reach thru outter walls of pvc. Behind blades is a slightly bigger than blades. Then on back side of "bob" a 3/4" male thread to tye on pex.
    I get a lot of 3/4" pic water lines. If I had this tool( if it exists). I could dig at meter feed cable thru line with nothing but bell fittings. Then attach tool. Pull on cable with winch. The tool should take all the pressure and split and spread the pipe while pulling the new line behind tool. This bursts the old line while pulling new line without digging. Each job would determine where winch is. I know it works.without this tool. Old backhoe operator taught me this technique without a tool. He would just expect it to pull old line out while dragging new copper thru. .
    If your comments include anything besides ideas for tool or where I can find one just keep to yourself. (Negative) I know it will work so don't try to correct me. 1/2" isn't great for new lines but the customer swears she has better flow. Mainly because we corrected the leak. But they are happy and I only worked for parts on this job. Took me 3 hours to do 500' new line. No digging.
     
  2. Mar 22, 2016 #2

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    ,
    Ps this is my proof of MY IDEA. Take and act like it's yours. You will wish I had sued you. This ain't my first rodeo.
     
  3. Mar 22, 2016 #3

    Chris

    Chris

    Chris

    Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    8,809
    Likes Received:
    928
    Location:
    Sweet, Idaho

    Don't worry, I do it right the first time.
     
    frodo likes this.
  4. Mar 22, 2016 #4

    frodo

    frodo

    frodo

    Just call me Macgyver Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
    Messages:
    6,036
    Likes Received:
    1,870
    Location:
    ,
    it is people like you that give plumbers a bad reputation.

    you have no clue as to plumbing codes ...you are what we call a "jackleg" plumber

    1/2'' pex cannot be run more than 300' as pr manufacture

    .

    I would not let you fill a dogs bowl with water let alone hire you to plumb.
     
    johnjh2o and SHR like this.
  5. Mar 22, 2016 #5

    spcwaters

    spcwaters

    spcwaters

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    34
    Location:
    ,
    were pro's man...it's not that 1/2" "isn't great" like you said. It's just not the right choice for that application. Feed the house with 3/4" nothing smaller.

    And i think Spartan Trenchless makes a tool like you describe.
     
    Jamesplumbing06 likes this.
  6. Mar 22, 2016 #6

    Chris

    Chris

    Chris

    Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    8,809
    Likes Received:
    928
    Location:
    Sweet, Idaho
    By running the 1/2" pipe you are getting roughly 40% less volume of water. If you add in the length of 500 feet and add in the head loss, friction loss and pressure loss you are killing the supply to this house. As it is the 3/4" was probably undersized for the length of run. At the get go on a good day you are going from 23 GPM to about 14GPM. Running through a smaller meter or valve is not going to do much for losses. I guarantee if you hook up a Pito to it you will see no good results. Just because it works well enough for the elderly couple to wash a dish or flush a toilet does not make it good. If they move or pass on the house will go to someone else who will then be forced to replace the undersized line with something of the correct size. Not trying to be an ass but there is a reason we have codes and go through all the training we go through to do what we do. I couldn't sleep at night if I new I was putting in failing systems for people.
     
    phishfood, SHR and JerryB41 like this.
  7. Mar 23, 2016 #7

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    ,
    Omg. I know. It was the cheapest. They have 4500' of line. 1". Meter is only 5/8". But anywho. That's why I want the tool. So next time I don't have to put this to choice. And I did test. We get 15 gpm and sitting at 110 psi. At house. I had to supply a free prv. They had been paying a $250 water bill for 3 years. Y'all don't know the circumstances. It was free and I couldn't afford to do the whole line. But I ain't arguing with someone that wasn't there. I know it ain't right. I know manufacture regulations. I also know I had to go home and get my wirsbo tool so I could get fittings with full flow. Tell me the difference in feeding a 2" line with 3/4". Meter. You get pressure for the first ten feet then the excess water starts absorbing the pressure. And you loose.
    Can y'all forget this one charity job so we can focus on the tool. If I can get a 3/4 line or even a 1". Hell for cock sizing we let's say 12" pipe. If I can pull a string so I can get cable thru. Then I can go with whatever size y'all want behind that tool. Like the tunnel machine utilities use. Just pull the new water line thru without digging.
    Back when steel line was the in thing. Plumbers laughed and picked apart pvc till finally they all changed. Now they feel like fools. But now we have pex. And it comes in 1000' rolls. That tells me. I can use the old busted line to use tool to split pipe and cause a bigger tunnel in dirt while pulling the line on a coil behind it.
    I mean come on. If you have never helped someone out and couldn't afford to bring out backhoe spend 2 days digging and refilling planted seed throwing straw. Or tell them everything you one track minds said. And afterward finding the flow rate and pressure hadn't changed at spigot on front of house. Then by all means throw a dang stone. But focus on the tool. So next time (as y'all say) this idiot doesn't have to downsize a pipe to get done in 3 hours. 3 hours to run a 500' shot. Pick your size pipe. But can you say you can run 500' of any pipe in 3 hours in 4' of soil? Focus on the tool.
     
  8. Mar 23, 2016 #8

    phishfood

    phishfood

    phishfood

    Well-Known Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    5,683
    Likes Received:
    967
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    I have heard of something like what you are looking for, but I believe it is designed to pull in copper.

    Even if you have the pressure needed to push 15 GPM through a 1/2" PEX line, it still is a bad idea. That kind of flow rate through 1/2" line is going to erode the pipe and fittings really fast.
     
  9. Mar 23, 2016 #9

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    ,
    I can explain the 3 hours. 1 hour to find and uncover pipe.2 holes 10 minutes to tie in inflated ballon on electrical pull twine. Stick vacumm on other end. 30 seconds your string is in pipe. I didn't have the tool. 3/4 wouldn't get 50' I tried that took 20 minutes. So 15 minutes to reset with the line we already covered I am an idiot for putting in for free. The other 1:15 pull for 50' rest. Pull 50' rest so on. So please forget the size line. With a winch and this tool. I could cut time. Now tell me fellow pro.
    Hello customer , I can get you a brand new line from meter to house 3/4" or 1". Only dig small hole around meter. Go in crawlspace cut line and do as above. You manicured precious hoa yard will not be disturbed. I be will be done in a couple hours and cost you a third of the money. Or bring out a mini hoe destroy your lawn. And you get to look at straw and seed in a straight line till grass grows back. O and those tires track never come out. And it will take all day maybe 2,3,4,5, I dunno till we done.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
  10. Mar 23, 2016 #10

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    ,


    Again the pipe size is meaningless. But thx I will look for tool. If it pulled copper it will pull pex.
     
  11. Mar 23, 2016 #11

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    ,


    Watch out we talk about pex and these guys are mean. Pex won't erode
     
  12. Mar 23, 2016 #12

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    ,
    I ment having an idea for invention then having it stolen. THE TOOL.
     
  13. Mar 23, 2016 #13

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    ,
    Dude why so rude? It was free for them. I felt horrible that they had just then after 3 years of high water bills. They called the rip offs on tv. They called the silent rip offs in yellow pages. I cared. I went below my standards for a charging job. I get it. I got it that day. Why else would I check flow and pressure.? Pressure ! Yeah every job. But who here checks flow for no reason? I don't advertise. I have 3 utility companies giving name out 6 hardware stores and over 4500 customers over the last 9.5 years out of the scam game.( Ben Franklin). Warranty everything I do. Did just over 110k last 6 years. By word of mouth. I am not mean or disrespectful. But if I can help someone I will. This was the only way I could afford for complete strangers. So please answer question without attacking me or move on. Please
     
  14. Mar 23, 2016 #14

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    ,
    I a pro too. Not a rough in junkie. 16 years total on service work. I shouldn't have explain my generosity but I did.
     
  15. Mar 23, 2016 #15

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    ,
    Thank you for explaining what wasn't asked.
     
  16. Mar 23, 2016 #16

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    ,
    15 gallon per minute? Who runs 7 faucets at once?????
     
  17. Mar 23, 2016 #17

    spcwaters

    spcwaters

    spcwaters

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    34
    Location:
    ,

    Generosity shouldn't circumvent the code, rough in, service, or remodel, helping someone out or not, as a plumber you know not to supply a house with 1/2" especially a 500ft run.

    But just my 2 cents, you couldn't of expected good feedback from that post lmao.


    Anyway, back to the OP. Did you check out Spartan? Is that the kind of tool your thinking of? I've never used Trenchless, but it seems cool.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2016
  18. Mar 23, 2016 #18

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    ,
    spartan trench less tool ? Thx I will look. Next time I will say no I can't help. Not bringing back hoe for free. Good luck old couple I only think inside the box.
     
  19. Mar 23, 2016 #19

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Jamesplumbing06

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    ,
    Woooo $33.,000 for Spartan trench less total setup. I will make one now that I see it. Thank you.
     
  20. Mar 23, 2016 #20

    Chris

    Chris

    Chris

    Administrator Admin

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    8,809
    Likes Received:
    928
    Location:
    Sweet, Idaho

    I was explaining just in case you didn't know. No reason to keep the sand in your crack.

    The districts use smaller and turbine meters because in the very short run they don't not effect volume much at all.

    You said you get pressure loss by going to a larger pipe which is slightly correct but you more than make up for it in volume. Volume is almost more important than pressure. Most would rather 30gpm with 10psi then 3gpm with 100psi.

    Relax a little, we are here to educate and help each other. If you can't take negative criticism you are in a world of trouble.

    I am not a plumber by any means but I am an engineering and pipeline contractor that has installed a mile or hundred of city mainline and thousands of meters. I might have an ounce of useful info at some point for you.
     
    phishfood likes this.

Share This Page