You are not reading what I wrote.
"My mind is not made up." I have NO opinion.
"Review from a HD customer who is a licensed plumber:"
This was not what I HEARD from a salesman.
The review may be phony, I don't know for sure, but it was not from a conversation with a salesman from HD.
John, how many of these "dump" toilets have you installed and/or serviced in 50 years?
In 50 years of professional experience which toilet have you found to be the most reliable?
The flaperless design has been produced for approximately 10 years.
http://www.niagaraflapperless.ca/pdfs/water_matrix.pdf
Read the press release announcing Niagara Flapperless' unique partnership with Homestead Land Holdings, one of Ontario's largest rental property companies.
Homestead Land Holdings has over 22,000 residential apartments spread across the cities of Brantford, Burlington, Guelph, Hamilton, Kingston, London, Oakville, Ottawa, Sarnia, Toronto and Naples, Florida. We have apartments to suit all lifestyles with amenities ranging from indoor/outdoor swimming pools, to fitness rooms, saunas and more.
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The Water Conservation Company has completed many successful retrofit projects with the Niagara Flapperless toilet.
Introduction
YCC # 455, The Concordia, is located at 25 Sunrise Avenue. The condominium is a 16 floor multi unit residential building with 202 suites. Each suite contains two washrooms. The current yearly water consumption for the building is 96,725 m3 per year. The current yearly water consumption pattern produces a daily water consumption pattern of 265.66 m3 and a per suite daily water consumption of 1.31 m3. The current water consumption can be considered high for a multi unit residential condominium property.
Given the current high water cost the Board of Directors and the Property Manager procured (WCC) Water Conservation Company Limited, a local water conservation company, to recommend measures that will provide the condominium with a substantial reduction in the current water cost. WCC reviewed the current water consumption data and reviewed the fixtures that consume water in a few sample suites. From the review of the water consumption data and the suite survey, WCC prepared a detailed water conservation plan for the condominium. The water conservation plan included the replacement of the existing older 20.0 litre per flush American Standard toilets with new 6.0 litre per flush Niagara Flapperless toilets and the supply and installation of new water and energy saving shower heads and faucet aerators.
The supply and installation of the new toilet fixtures includes the City of Toronto toilet rebate program. The City of Toronto toilet rebate program enables the condominium to take advantage of the $60.00 cash rebate paid directly to the Condominium Corporation for every new toilet supplied and installed in the condominium
Product Selection
WCC provided the Board of Directors with an overview of water saving materials in a Board presentation. The Board presentation included the benefits and features of the City of Toronto approved water saving toilets for the City of Toronto toilet rebate program. The presentation includes a review of MAP toilet testing. WCC water saving approach is to only install proven water saving fixtures that will not create any lifestyle changes for the residents. The Board members worked with WCC to select the Niagara Flapperless toilets, Niagara shower heads and quality water and energy saving faucet aerators. Sample fixtures were installed for the Boards review and approval.
Program Approval
For the water saving fit up program to be a success the new fixtures must be installed in a large number of individual suites in order to dramatically impact the current high cost of water at the condominium. WCC water saving fit up programs for condominiums includes an individual sign up program for the individual residents of the suites in the condominium. The individual sign up program is necessary as the Condominium Corporation is responsible for the bulk metered water cost and the individual suite owners own the fixtures that consume the water. The sign up program eliminates the gap that exists between the water cost and the ownership of the fixtures that consume the water. The sign up program includes the individual owners signing an authorisation form to simple exchange their existing older toilets for the new water saving toilets and that ownership of the fixtures does not change. WCC provides a two year service warranty directly to each individual owner. WCC approach is to work with the individual owners to ensure they are completely comfortable with the new water saving fixtures.
The sign up program begins with an information flyer distributed to all of the residents of the condominium explaining the financial benefits of the water saving program for both the corporation and the individual owners of the suites in the condominium. The information flyer is followed with the sign up program completed by WCC. The sign up program at YCC # 455 resulted in over 88% of all of the existing residents agreeing to participate in the water saving fit up program. WCC has completed water saving fit up programs at other condominiums and has secured for various Boards sign up rates always exceeding 70% of residents. The sign up program also include the optional installation of new water and energy saving shower heads and faucet aerators.
The majority of the remaining residents that did not agree to participate in the water saving program had already installed new water efficient fixtures as part of individual washroom renovations.
Installation
The installation process begins with a notice of work schedule distributed to the participating residents. WCC attempts to accommodate any resident’s specific scheduling concerns in order to facilitate a personalized installation. The installation process includes the daily deliver of the fixtures to the building to be completed each day. The new fixtures are delivered to the scheduled floors and pre-assembled in the hallway at each door. The work done in each suite is completed in a well-organized process, resulting in a prompt and professional service. The installation of the new fixtures includes the removal and disposal of the existing toilets and re tapconing of the existing toilet flanges if required. The installation of new foam or wax rings, new floor bolts and new toilet supply lines. Installation of the new 6 litre per flush toilets in white, installation of new toilet seats, testing of the new toilets.
The old toilet fixtures are removed and disposed of in a large container and the site is completely cleaned up. The process continues until all of the new fixtures are installed. WCC completes the installation of approximately 40 to 45 new toilets per day resulting in a very quick program. Included with the new toilet is the supply and installation of the new shower heads and faucet aerators.
Dollar Savings
The completion of the water saving fit up at YCC # 455 has resulted in a new dramatically lower water consumption pattern for the condominium. The new daily water consumption pattern is 170.16 m3 per day. The new daily water consumption represents a 36 % drop in water consumption. The new daily water consumption will produce an annual dollar savings of $ 46,361.23 per year for YCC # 455 resulting in a very quick payback period.
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It is hard to argue with these figures.
We would call the 150+ users of these toilets and ask them how they like the flaperless design after they were installed in 2005.
John, have you ever been wrong in judging a product?
I have been wrong many times, and I admit that I might have the wrong view of the flapperless design.
Time will tell.