What would you do different Thread

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Twowaxhack

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@Twowaxhack The issue you may not be considering is the friction loss of those crimp fittings. Yes your measuring 50 psi static pressure, but as soon as you run the water it passes through them and drops the pressure, a lot in some cases, depending how many you use. The smaller the fitting the worse this gets. Like I said if you get done and your measuring the correct output good on you. I'd rather just be confident no matter the pressure (within reason) that the installation couldn't be improved. I think i lot of Plumbers feel that way.
I think you guys aren’t considering that I’m a 36 yr pro that’s telling you I’ve installed hundreds of these valves without a problem.

So if you’re having problems then maybe you guys are the ones who are not considering all the pros and cons of pex and how it’s installed at different pressures with tub and shower valves.

I’m not having any problems yet I’m using products that some say can’t be used with success how I’m using them.

I have to leave the restrictor in the showerhead until after inspection or it flows too much water......That’s a WIN.

I’ve posted pics, I’ve posted that I have more pics.

There’s not much more I can do to prove my point.
 

Twowaxhack

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I’d love to see some of your pics of the work we’re talking about.

It’s really easy to post pics.....

Here is the restriction to the shower outlet in a delta R10000 rough valve. That’s of course after it goes through the cartridge......more restriction.

7DD491B8-2077-46D1-BB9B-3F0FBE43EE63.jpeg
Its made of copper and is pressed into the rough valve. It can be removed for shower only applications to get maximum flow through the rough valve.
 
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Duckbutter

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So if you’re having problems then maybe you guys are the ones who are not considering all the pros and cons of pex and how it’s installed at different pressures with tub and shower valves.

I’m not having any problems yet I’m using products that some say can’t be used with success how I’m using them.

I have to leave the restrictor in the showerhead until after inspection or it flows too much water......That’s a WIN.
My guess, most your valves are new construction, not replacements.

I've repeatedly stated the flow difference is when switching from copper, there is a noticeable difference, especially for upper floors or where pressure is already low.

I stopped using them after a couple of callbacks, homeowners notice slower flows on existing showers.

You likely work a rural area, no high-rises or multiple floor dwellings, or you only do new, not replacement.

As to removing the restrictor, I don't like doing that, nor should I have to do it.

If an inspector suspects it, yes, he can break out a bucket and time flow for 2.5 GPM.

As for the restricted diameter, that alone violates my code, a shower has a required minimum 1/2" feed, meaning I'd need to up-size them to 3/4", the 1/2" fitting ports are more like ~3/8's.

In the case of the opening post Pic, at the very least I'd do 3/4" to feed three showers, we do that here on high end multiple head showers anyway.
 

Twowaxhack

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My guess, most your valves are new construction, not replacements.

I've repeatedly stated the flow difference is when switching from copper, there is a noticeable difference, especially for upper floors or where pressure is already low.

I stopped using them after a couple of callbacks, homeowners notice slower flows on existing showers.

You likely work a rural area, no high-rises or multiple floor dwellings, or you only do new, not replacement.

As to removing the restrictor, I don't like doing that, nor should I have to do it.

If an inspector suspects it, yes, he can break out a bucket and time flow for 2.5 GPM.

As for the restricted diameter, that alone violates my code, a shower has a required minimum 1/2" feed, meaning I'd need to up-size them to 3/4", the 1/2" fitting ports are more like ~3/8's.

In the case of the opening post Pic, at the very least I'd do 3/4" to feed three showers, we do that here on high end multiple shower head showers anyway.
Most all my work are replacements during a remodel.

i work strictly in the city, highly populated. Water pressure between 60-80 psi.

The opening post pic isn’t my work, I also don’t approve of how it’s piped.

I remove restrictions where I see fit, I’m a professional.

I’m not concerned with the plumbing code except where I see fit. I can get an engineers stamp to over ride any plumbing code in my jurisdiction. They can kick rocks and go play their game with someone else.

You say you quit using the pex crimp valves because you had callbacks.....and you also say they violate your code.

Do you use crimp pex ?

Why were you using them if they violated your code and where did you buy them from ?
They sell valves that violate your code at your supply house ?

Sorry for all the questions.
 
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Duckbutter

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I think you guys aren’t considering that I’m a 36 yr pro that’s telling you I’ve installed hundreds of these valves without a problem. ....
It strikes me odd to hear a licensed plumber tell another licensed plumber he's a "code book thumper" solely for talking code in a "plumbing" forum.

Seeing another licensed plumber cite code and offer professional input is extremely refreshing in a world full of customers that want cheaper/easier answers and often resort to cheap unlicensed hacks who couldn't care about code.

Can't speak for you, but my apprenticeship wasn't easy or cheap, my liability/comp/health insurance is expensive, continuing education requirements are a pain.
 

Twowaxhack

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It strikes me odd to hear a licensed plumber tell another licensed plumber he's a "code book thumper" solely for talking code in a "plumbing" forum.

Seeing another licensed plumber cite code and offer professional input is extremely refreshing in a world full of customers that want cheaper/easier answers and often resort to cheap unlicensed hacks who couldn't care about code.

Can't speak for you, but my apprenticeship wasn't easy or cheap, my liability/comp/health insurance is expensive, continuing education requirements are a pain.
I didn’t tell him he’s a code book thumper. I told him “ I’m not the code book thumper here “

The code is a guide. It’s not the Holy Bible. It’s also corrupted by people for financial reasons.

Ive been in business a long time and I have happy customers.

Im sure you have happy customers as well.

I started my apprenticeship when I was 12. I find nothing about residential plumbing difficult other than it’s physical labor.

Insurance has always been expensive.. Thank God we don’t have continuous education. Just another way that big brother puts his thumb on you. Inspect my work, if it fails then we can talk......until then, see ya, I don’t need your continuing education class.

Have a great day.

P.S.
I’d love to see some of your pics of the tub/shower valves you’ve installed with the cpvc spout drops
 
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Duckbutter

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The code is a guide. It’s not the Holy Bible.
So, you're saying You have 36 years experience as a licensed plumber and plumbing code is just a "guide", gas fixtures are ok installed by homeowners, interesting, I'll have to bring this up with inspectors, We're doin' it all wrong!
 

Twowaxhack

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So, you're saying You have 36 years experience as a licensed plumber and plumbing code is just a "guide", gas fixtures are ok installed by homeowners, interesting, I'll have to bring this up with inspectors, We're doin' it all wrong!
That’s exactly what I’m saying. Inspectors allow violations of the code everyday. They call it “ an exception “. Code writers often change the code, because of “ problems “

You may not be doing it all wrong but you’re for sure doing it different in Massachusetts than most places.

That’s a fact.

I heard it was illegal for you to pump your own gas in your car up north some where.......is that true ? 🤣. Maybe it was Massachusetts, msybe not.....🤣

It’s New Jersey and Oregon .....See how stupid that sounds 🤣🤣🤣

Im sure they’d point to google to show you all the accidents the rest of the country is having pumping their own gas .......🤣
 
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PerplexedPlumber

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Back to the questions and posts, I noticed also what Zanne mentioned: 90 degree elbows with crimp connections and tees. Those would increase friction and, more importantly, choke flow due to smaller interior diameter, with each piece adding to the reduction. For multiple shower heads, this doesn't look ideal.
 

Twowaxhack

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Back to the questions and posts, I noticed also what Zanne mentioned: 90 degree elbows with crimp connections and tees. Those would increase friction and, more importantly, choke flow due to smaller interior diameter, with each piece adding to the reduction. For multiple shower heads, this doesn't look ideal.
The only way it would matter would be if all three were used at once, maybe.....

You might see different flow volumes out of each head at high rates of flow and all being used at once.

It all depends on a lot we can’t see in the pic. Like the pressure and if it’s intended to all be used at once and what the flow rate will be.

If it were to all to be used at once with approximately 8gpm of flow it would probably be fine at 60psi. Anymore volume that that I would’ve made a loop and used all 3/4.
 
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