What would you do different Thread

Help Support Plumbing Forums:

Twowaxhack

Professional
Professional
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
4,793
Reaction score
2,138
Location
United states
I’m going to post pics here and you guys get to chop it to pieces and say what you’d do different and why.
5B57068A-B92A-4074-BE14-21C194405340.jpeg
So what about this, what would you do different ?????
 

Duckbutter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2021
Messages
75
Reaction score
21
Location
Mass
I've had problems with crimp PEX fittings on shower valves, they're less than 1/2" and tend to reduce flow, Definitely don't want to use them for tub/shower, they can create enough flow resistance to cause water to flow to the shower while the tub's used.
 

Twowaxhack

Professional
Professional
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
4,793
Reaction score
2,138
Location
United states
I've had problems with crimp PEX fittings on shower valves, they're less than 1/2" and tend to reduce flow, Definitely don't want to use them for tub/shower, they can create enough flow resistance to cause water to flow to the shower while the tub's used.
Thats only on the tub spout drop.
 

Duckbutter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2021
Messages
75
Reaction score
21
Location
Mass
Thats only on the tub spout drop.
No, it isn't.
I've had complaints about lower flow on individual fixtures after swapping from copper to PEX with crimp fittings, shower valves in particular, the barbed ID is smaller than 1/2".
 

Twowaxhack

Professional
Professional
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
4,793
Reaction score
2,138
Location
United states
No, it isn't.
I've had complaints about lower flow on individual fixtures after swapping from copper to PEX with crimp fittings, shower valves in particular, the barbed ID is smaller than 1/2".
Delta sells pex rough valves as do others. There’s no problem if the system is installed properly, and most of the time it’s fine even if the system isn’t proper. A shower only runs 2.5gpm and 1/2” pex will easily deliver.
 
Last edited:

Zanne

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
2,230
Reaction score
311
Location
,
Any pics or diagrams of the loop thing you were talking about, @Twowaxhack? I think Frodo has mentioned loops before but I don't think I've ever seen it done.

I'm no plumber, but instead of using the PEX crimp elbows to make the 90° bend, I would have used some cheap PVC gray conduit elbows (one size larger than the PEX) to guide them through. Even if they needed to be cut a little shorter on one end to fit, they make it so you don't have an extra potential spot for leaking. This is what my friend did in his bathroom (it still needs tweaking)-- the copper tube that was soldered on broke off so he had to replace it.
1622947615798.png
 

Duckbutter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2021
Messages
75
Reaction score
21
Location
Mass
Delta sells pex rough valves as do others. There’s no problem if the system is installed properly, and most of the time it’s fine even if the system isn’t proper. A shower only runs 2.5gpm and 1/2” pex will easily deliver.
Unless they're the full port expansion type, no.
There is a noticeable difference when switching from full ID copper to crimp pex, ESPECIALLY on a shower. I had a few callbacks on bath remods then decided to switch to Flowguard - no more callbacks.
The fact that those fittings will encourage flow back up to the shower head with the tub spout open is enough to keep me away.
 

Twowaxhack

Professional
Professional
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
4,793
Reaction score
2,138
Location
United states
Unless they're the full port expansion type, no.
There is a noticeable difference when switching from full ID copper to crimp pex, ESPECIALLY on a shower. I had a few callbacks on bath remods then decided to switch to Flowguard - no more callbacks.
The fact that those fittings will encourage flow back up to the shower head with the tub spout open is enough to keep me away.
Oh yeah ? Guess what.....1/2”flowguard will also make the shower head dribble when used as the spout drop on a tub/shower.

Again.....a shower only flows 2.5 gpm and 1/2” pex will supply that just fine.

That’s why the manufacturers produce and sell thousands of them a day with pex inlets milled in.......there’s no problem with supplying 1/2” pex for the inlets.

Delta also sells a high flow shower valve. They removed the equivalent of the twin ell......

The cartridge itself is also a restriction.....they sell high flow cartridges.

I suggest you read about it.
 
Last edited:

JG plumbing

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2021
Messages
1,439
Reaction score
514
Location
Iowa
This is why I buy the sweat/threaded rough valves and choose how to do it myself. Copper up and down. Then pex from the sides. Or copper the whole way.
 

Twowaxhack

Professional
Professional
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
4,793
Reaction score
2,138
Location
United states
This is why I buy the sweat/threaded rough valves and choose how to do it myself. Copper up and down. Then pex from the sides. Or copper the whole way.
What is why ? The pex inlets are not the restriction.


I’ve installed hundreds of these pex inlet valves. 60-75 psi water pressure.

Flow restriction is required at the showerhead to meet the 2.5 GPM maximum or I get closer to 4.5 gpm.

Thank you guys.....
 
Last edited:

JG plumbing

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2021
Messages
1,439
Reaction score
514
Location
Iowa
I know what your saying. My point was I don't like a rough valve that limits how I install it.
 

JG plumbing

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2021
Messages
1,439
Reaction score
514
Location
Iowa
If you can measure 2.5 gallon per min (or whatever the shower head/valve you bought was designed to output) after you install them yes have have done no wrong. I think the dripping was the issue here. Which is why I use copper.
 

Twowaxhack

Professional
Professional
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
4,793
Reaction score
2,138
Location
United states
B9BA9E57-71F2-4348-88DF-F9DD7802FCFA.png
No, it doesn't.
You use 1/2” cpvc for tub spout drops ?

Do you realize the id of cpvc is smaller than copper ?

I’ve had to correct homeowner piping that used cpvc for spout drop, it caused shower rise.....when water dribbled from the shower head as the tub filler is used.

Here are a few pics of pex inlet rough valves and they caused no issuer.....it’s all I use typically. I have many, these were just on my phone. E664E3E1-D469-4F3F-B14C-D8046D2B5B6D.png9F6DD6D9-5D48-4296-AE70-C40B6831D8D4.png13AFDBDE-A670-4276-AC63-2CA417355F75.png73368DCD-CAC9-468F-844D-A322D709C5E3.jpeg30E78B3E-519B-41B6-9C0F-78D3098CE654.png
 
Last edited:

Twowaxhack

Professional
Professional
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
4,793
Reaction score
2,138
Location
United states
If you can measure 2.5 gallon per min (or whatever the shower head/valve you bought was designed to output) after you install them yes have have done no wrong. I think the dripping was the issue here. Which is why I use copper.
That’s nothing to do with pex inlets.....

That has to do with the spout drop.
 

Duckbutter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2021
Messages
75
Reaction score
21
Location
Mass
This is why I buy the sweat/threaded rough valves and choose how to do it myself. Copper up and down. Then pex from the sides. Or copper the whole way.
Agree, I've also seen valves that come with built-in O-ring push fits, doesn't mean I'll use 'em.

I don't like rubber as a seal inside a wall, just touch any toilet tank bolt washer after five years, black finger tip. (not a fan of propress either)

I did non-stop bath remodels for years, my concern with crimp pex fittings is based on repeated experience, I got too many callbacks for lower pressure switching from copper to pex, usually more noticeable on upper floors or where incoming pressure is already low.

I was usually able to resolve the flow issue by removing the shower head flow restrictor, but once I switched to flowguard the callbacks stopped.

The picture above demonstrates numerous barbed fittings, all 1/2" for 3 valves, I'd at least have run a 3/4" from below.
 

Duckbutter

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2021
Messages
75
Reaction score
21
Location
Mass
You use 1/2” cpvc for tub spout drops ?
Use a metal transition drop ear, run copper as the stub, block it, as you're supposed to.

It's full port all the way, same with the head, no flow restriction, no call back.
 

Twowaxhack

Professional
Professional
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
4,793
Reaction score
2,138
Location
United states
I have plenty of more pics if you’d like to see delta pex valves installed and working great. Talk is cheap

I have to use restriction in the showerheads to pass inspection.....


Cpvc is bottom of the barrel here, no one will use it. Too many issues.
 

JG plumbing

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2021
Messages
1,439
Reaction score
514
Location
Iowa
@Twowaxhack The issue you may not be considering is the friction loss of those crimp fittings. Yes your measuring 50 psi static pressure, but as soon as you run the water it passes through them and drops the pressure, a lot in some cases, depending how many you use. The smaller the fitting the worse this gets. Like I said if you get done and your measuring the correct output good on you. I'd rather just be confident no matter the pressure (within reason) that the installation couldn't be improved. I think i lot of Plumbers feel that way.
 
Top