sensor to control tenant from leaving window open?

[GymBag]

But there are reasons to have the window open and the heat on. By your own admission.

See that wouldn’t have worked out well for you in court.

Give it a rest. Of course there are reasons but not when the tenant isn't there.

I never wrote anything about the landlord controlling the heat, I mentioned zone controls and cameras, so they can see when the windows are open.

You're either a lawyer or you want to be one. Wannabes should know when to stop acting like lawyers.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Give it a rest. Of course there are reasons but not when the tenant isn't there.

I never wrote anything about the landlord controlling the heat, I mentioned zone controls and cameras, so they can see when the windows are open.

You're either a lawyer or you want to be one. Wannabes should know when to stop acting like lawyers.

I’m a plumbing business owner that works for several property management companies and more lawyers than you can count that give me advice on this type of issue to keep me OUT OF LAWSUITS.

You admitted there are reasons to run the heat and have the window open In post #16 last paragraph.

What if the heat isn’t even and one room gets really hot ? What if they like fresh air ? It’s really none of anyone business…….

Point a camera at a tenants window ? Really? .

I’ll correct you if you’re wrong…..and you’re wrong. If you don’t like it then put me on ignore.

 

[GymBag]

Like Twowaxhack said:

- "You can’t stop a tenant from opening a window if it was operable when they leased it."
- "...there are reasons to have the window open and the heat on."
- "Lawsuit written all over it."

Just do a quick search about the benefits of opening a window in the winter. And suppose the tenant decides to perform a Radon gas test. If they find any, then the landlord would be required to provide an inhabitable apartment which means a Radon mitigation system for the building. The tenant can then stay there with the window open, heat on, until the mitigation system is in place.

And turning off, or even limiting, the heat to an apartment would clearly be a breach of the agreement by the landlord. The result could easily be that the tenant stays in the apartment with perhaps a few electric space heaters rent free until the landlord provides the heat per the original agreement.

A lawsuit based on the landlord turning off or limiting the heat to the apartment would be won by the tenant as the landlord is clearly the party in breach.

Is Radon a problem on upper floors when the place doesn't have forced air with cold air returns in the lowest areas? The EPA link shows that Radon is 7.5 times heavier than air, so it won't float to the higher floors but it can be redistributed by air or objects moving through the area.

Rent free? The landlord already provides heat, but I'm not sure we have all of the details about how the radiators are or aren't controllable (I may have missed it). The radiators I see have a thermostatically controlled valve unless it has zone control at the head end.

www.epa.gov/radon/why-must-radon-be-vented-air-above-my-homes-roof

 

[Twowaxhack]

Is Radon a problem on upper floors when the place doesn't have forced air with cold air returns in the lowest areas? The EPA link shows that Radon is 7.5 times heavier than air, so it won't float to the higher floors but it can be redistributed by air or objects moving through the area.

Rent free? The landlord already provides heat, but I'm not sure we have all of the details about how the radiators are or aren't controllable (I may have missed it). The radiators I see have a thermostatically controlled valve unless it has zone control at the head end.

www.epa.gov/radon/why-must-radon-be-vented-air-above-my-homes-roof

It doesn’t matter why they have the window open. It’s their house….they leased their portion of it. They can leave the window open if they want.

I just asked a lawyer.

 

[GymBag]

I’m a plumbing business owner that works for several property management companies and more lawyers than you can count that give me advice on this type of issue to keep me OUT OF LAWSUITS.

You admitted there are reasons to run the heat and have the window open I’m post #16 last paragraph.

I don't know where you got the idea that I told the OP to turn off the heat- as a rental property owner, I know that isn't allowed. I also know that when heat is included in the rent, people tent to abuse it because they have no financial interest in the property and don't care if the property owner has to pay more until their rent has been raised. Funny, how that works.....

Writing that there are reasons without being specific doesn't mean that all reasons are valid.

 

[Riickk]

You'll need to figure what the new equitable rent. Best to get all the listings for nearby rentals you can find. (call rental departments of local real estate brokers, or drop-in). Compare rents (1br -v- 1br, 2br -v- 2br, etc) with heat -v- without. Now figure PERCENTAGE discount or plus factor for heat that will make sense to the tenants. Good Luck !

 

[GymBag]

It doesn’t matter why they have the window open. It’s their house….they leased their portion of it. They can leave the window open if they want.

Without costing the homeowner more, I would argue that they should be a bit more reasonable with the settings unless the homeowner isn't willing to make some changes and in this case, he's looking for ideas to do that. If the renter's thermostat controls the whole system, that's bad implementation by the HVAC contractor and they should have explained the options better.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I don't know where you got the idea that I told the OP to turn off the heat- as a rental property owner, I know that isn't allowed. I also know that when heat is included in the rent, people tent to abuse it because they have no financial interest in the property and don't care if the property owner has to pay more until their rent has been raised. Funny, how that works.....

Writing that there are reasons without being specific doesn't mean that all reasons are valid.

I never said you said to turn off the heat.

The tenant has a thermostat for there own zone as I understand it.

Nothing can be done about them running the heat with a window open.


The OP screwed up when he let someone have a LEGAL right to part of his home.

It doesn’t have to make sense to you, me or the original poster. That’s the risk you take by renting to strangers and agreeing to pay the utilities


Make sense ?

 

[MicEd69]

I was referring to the OP who said, "is there a way to shut off the heat in there zone if the pump runs for too long in there zone".

That, my friend, is a law suit!

Is Radon a problem on upper floors when the place doesn't have forced air with cold air returns in the lowest areas? The EPA link shows that Radon is 7.5 times heavier than air, so it won't float to the higher floors but it can be redistributed by air or objects moving through the area.

Rent free? The landlord already provides heat, but I'm not sure we have all of the details about how the radiators are or aren't controllable (I may have missed it). The radiators I see have a thermostatically controlled valve unless it has zone control at the head end.

www.epa.gov/radon/why-must-radon-be-vented-air-above-my-homes-roof

That was simply an example. But as far as closing off the heat, I was referring to the OP who said, "is there a way to shut off the heat in there zone if the pump runs for too long in there zone".

That, my friend, is a lawsuit!

 

[Twowaxhack]

I was referring to the OP who said, "is there a way to shut off the heat in there zone if the pump runs for too long in there zone".

That, my friend, is a law suit!

That was simply an example. But as far as closing off the heat, I was referring to the OP who said, "is there a way to shut off the heat in there zone if the pump runs for too long in there zone".

That, my friend, is a lawsuit!

So is pointing a camera at their window for the purpose of monitoring when they leave it open.

That’s called stalking.

 

[Bird Doo Head]

Public/ low income housing?

The apartments were mostly low income. Residents were usually transients like hookers & dealers & stuff. But some were Section 8 with good, stable families. I don't know if any were Market Rent, but I'd imagine some were.

I saw that you mentioned your house in Michigan. If you are familiar with Detroit, these were along 6 Mile west of Hamilton to about Linwood and some were on & around the Puritan & Fenkell/Livernois area. (We didn't go to the other side of Hamilton much. The neighborhood was scary.)

 

[RickFlorida]

The only reasonable solution is to kindly ask them, if they refuse to close it when it's cold, you should just not renew their lease when it comes up. Being a landord is a huge risk and is a full time job in my opinion. It's not a guarantee of a net benefit.

It would be like investing in a stock but then the stock doesnt' behave they way you want it to. So I suggest asking them again and then just don't renew their lease if they don't do what you ask. Your next tenant might be a better tenant.

When I was a legislative aide for a large county in Florida, it seemed like 75% of my time was dealing with landlords because it's such a full time job and risk being one yet none of them had to have any training, certification, people skills, and took up a lot of our resources like code enforcement and stuff. I'm not saying that's you but my point is I think being a landlord is more risky then starting a restaurant from what I;'ve seen.

 

[Rickyman]

great suggestions on the meters and adding a circulator pump - much more economical than adding another boiler which i think is the usual solution but its pricey long term

ive let them know about windows several times. it is a couple with one child and their mother, she is either forgetful or a rebel - she's the main cause of these things. i'll keep reminding and in the meantime consider these options. i'm reluctant to get too confrontational as we do not want their footsteps to get more intense! the joys of multifamily

regarding the front door - they have had a family member in our town be broken into m and they still sometimes leave the door unlocked, must be plain old lazy. i was brought up in nyc and we had about four locks and a iron pole lock against the door

I think the issue is too many people living in the house. Everyone has different temperature comfort levels. The mother in law might like it 80° in the house but the other tenants want it a bit cooler so they open the window by them so they don't sweat their asses off. It's a tough one to control. Good luck.

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

Quite a few people I know and have known, like to sleep with their windows open in the winter. This includes people who own their own single family homes, with no tenants. Makes not a lick of sense to me; if you like the air cool in your bedroom, then get a *&^% setback thermostat. Makes no sense to try and heat the world. While I do NOT want my windows open in the winter (and rarely in the summer either!) my setback turns the heat down to 62 degrees at night but warms it up to 70 before I get up. I may like it cool when I sleep but I'm not getting up to 62 in my room!

If people pay for their own utilities they have more respect for them. Time to figure out something different when the lease is up.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Maybe one of the family members upstairs has awful gas when they eat Indian food and they like Indian food when it’s cold.

 

[Bird Doo Head]

Quite a few people I know and have known, like to sleep with their windows open in the winter. This includes people who own their own single family homes, with no tenants. Makes not a lick of sense to me.....

People like the freshness of outdoor air while sleeping, not just the lower temperature. I sure do.

When I was single, that was my norm. When I was on day or afternoon shift: Heat turned off an hour or so before sleeping & a window open while sleeping. It was closed at rising & the heat went back on.

Night shift = Daytime sleeping. It usually didn't work well.

Got Married: Nail that window closed, boy!

 

[GymBag]

So is pointing a camera at their window for the purpose of monitoring when they leave it open.

That’s called stalking.

It's possible to aim a camera at a window and not be able to see inside. Also, some cameras have a privacy feature that allows blocking the interior, but still see that a window is open.

 

[Twowaxhack]

It's possible to aim a camera at a window and not be able to see inside. Also, some cameras have a privacy feature that allows blocking the interior, but still see that a window is open.

If you point a camera at a tenants window with the intent to keep track of a tenants actions and you admit that fact then it’s an invasion of privacy. It’s called stalking in the legal world.

Ask any lawyer.


This thread is done. A landlord can’t stop someone from opening their window just because the landlord pays the heat bill no matter how you spin it.

 

[GymBag]

The apartments were mostly low income. Residents were usually transients like hookers & dealers & stuff. But some were Section 8 with good, stable families. I don't know if any were Market Rent, but I'd imagine some were.

I saw that you mentioned your house in Michigan. If you are familiar with Detroit, these were along 6 Mile west of Hamilton to about Linwood and some were on & around the Puritan & Fenkell/Livernois area. (We didn't go to the other side of Hamilton much. The neighborhood was scary.)

I'm not in Michigan but we have plenty of areas where it used to be safe, but no longer are although most of the bad stuff happens at night, other than incredibly bad driving/car theft/carjacking and events that don't make the news. There are areas I won't drive through or into, but I generally don't feel unsafe in most of the city.

I have driven past public housing for decades and every Winter, the windows are open during cold weather. That even happens in newly built apartment buildings that clearly have separate HVAC for each unit.

 

[havasu]

https://media.tenor.com/Ar6Om-yQ9n8AAAAC/tenor.gif
I think we are done here. He asked and was answered.