sensor to control tenant from leaving window open?

[jav100]

i have a duplex and the whole home (both apartments) are heated by one boiler. my upstairs tenant sometimes leaves their window open (even when its cold like today). is there a sensor of sorts that I could install that would shut off their zone temporarily so they are more mindful of leaving the window open. tonight it looks like they will leave it open all night and temps are falling to high 30s F. I've told them, reminded them

I know the best solution is to separate the heat and provide their own boiler, but that is a big upfront expenses, and then I have to maintain and replace that unit when it goes.

my concern is the pump is running non-stop and will prematurely fail and of course running it non stop costs money

 

[Arctic trouble]

Momentary switch in the window frame, complete the circuit or no pump activation. Does the tenant have a thermostat and able to reasonably control temps?

 

[GymBag]

i have a duplex and the whole home (both apartments) are heated by one boiler. my upstairs tenant sometimes leaves their window open (even when its cold like today). is there a sensor of sorts that I could install that would shut off their zone temporarily so they are more mindful of leaving the window open. tonight it looks like they will leave it open all night and temps are falling to high 30s F. I've told them, reminded them

I know the best solution is to separate the heat and provide their own boiler, but that is a big upfront expenses, and then I have to maintain and replace that unit when it goes.

my concern is the pump is running non-stop and will prematurely fail and of course running it non stop costs money

Install a reasonably priced surveillance camera and a record when the window is open. Then, WHEN they decide to argue about it, you can show proof.

Is heat included in the rent? NEVER do that.

Send a certified letter and explain that leaving the window open is going to shorten the life of the boiler system and that if they don't close the window, you'll have no choice but to raise their rent or evict them and that repairs for any premature damage will be paid by them.

This is the mentality of many renters, especially when heat is included.

 

[Joe-H]

Replace the tenant, done.

Joe H

 

[GymBag]

Replace the tenant, done.

Joe H

In some places, that's not easy unless they have a month to month arrangement.

 

[Twowaxhack]

You can’t stop a tenant from opening a window if it was operable when they leased it.

 

[jav100]

when we bought the house three years ago, the wife insisted on splitting the heat on the one boiler and giving a thermostat to the tenants to control. as you can imagine that is the last time i'll let her get her way

they are otherwise good tenants, pay on time and quiet, just this and some minor quirks (sometimes forget to lock common front door, and heavy feet walking).

we do include the heat in the rent... is there a way to shut off the heat in there zone if the pump runs for too long in there zone, surely there must be a way to install a simple computer or mechaism that shuts if off after x minutes? this way it will start to get cold and they will be forced to shut the window

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

I solved this issue once before it became a problem. I installed BTU submeters to figure out how much energy the tenant was using. Billed them monthly. It was a commercial property in southern Vermont heated by oil. No reason it cannot be used in a residential application.

https://www.istec-corp.com/products/btu-energy-meters-overview.htm
When I installed my heated driveway in Michigan I installed a small gas meter just to see how much gas the heater was using. So submetering of gas is relatively easy too. Used, small gas meters are commonly available.

Submetering of electricity is possible too, plenty of retrofit solutions available. Same for water.

If you don’t charge the tenants for utilities they have no respect for their value. Things change when they must pay for what they use.

 

[GymBag]

when we bought the house three years ago, the wife insisted on splitting the heat on the one boiler and giving a thermostat to the tenants to control. as you can imagine that is the last time i'll let her get her way

they are otherwise good tenants, pay on time and quiet, just this and some minor quirks (sometimes forget to lock common front door, and heavy feet walking).

we do include the heat in the rent... is there a way to shut off the heat in there zone if the pump runs for too long in there zone, surely there must be a way to install a simple computer or mechaism that shuts if off after x minutes? this way it will start to get cold and they will be forced to shut the window

Call an HVAC contractor- Honeywell has zone controllers for boilers and they can be controlled by smart thermostats. If the house has smart thermostats, you can see when the temperature is higher than normal in that unit by checking the phone app and if you see it happen, call them. They may be annoyed, but if they want to stop your calls, they'll close the window.

Some smart doorbells have accessory door and window sensors, too.

They need to understand that it's YOUR house, YOUR rules and that every time they leave the door unlocked, there's a chance that someone could walk in and steal YOUR property, damage YOUR house or go in and wait for someone to come home and do who knows what. This is unacceptable. I don't care where someone lives, the time for thinking "It won't happen" passed long ago.

Locks are made for honest people, but they can stop or slow dishonest ones, too.

I doubt these renters have owned a house- renters often don't have ANY sense of responsibility for the place where they live and don't understand that while they may be great people, it's possible that at least one of the people they invite into their part of the house will be looking at it as a target for theft.

If you want them to get the point about lack of security from leaving the door unlocked, move an item of their property that's in a common area that would be missed immediately if it were gone. Move it to a different part of the common area and when they call about it being missing, tell them "I moved it so I could clean sorry, but you left the door unlocked AGAIN". This is something that I would see as a huge problem, as a rental property owner.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Lawsuit written all over it.

 

[GymBag]

Lawsuit written all over it.

What, moving something? Not if it's still in a common area.

What happens if the renter's irresponsibility leads to someone entering their place and attacking a member of his family?

 

[Riickk]

One FHW furnace, one heating bill, units zoned, but only one circulator. Solution I saw once was cheap and effective.
Owner put in second circulator pump for the zone that served the rental unit, and wired in digital hour meters for both circulators. The number of hours ON for each zone, visible to everyone, in the common hallway/entry.

When the heating bill came in, the owner would send calculation to the tenant based on end of month’s hours (minus) end of previous month’s hours.

Heating Bill for month of January 2024: $334.00

Unit #1: 78.4 hours use​

Unit #2: 55.6 hours use​

Total Hours: 134 hours use​

Unit #1 Percentage: 58.5% ..... $334 x 58.5% = $195.39​

Unit #2 Percentage: 41.5% ..... $334 x 41.5% = $138.61​

Even if the apartments differ greatly in square footage, the division in heating bill this way is pretty equitable. Of course if Tenant has a written lease, they have to agree to change in lease terms, and get reduced rent as part of the deal.

For personal safety, and fire protection (quick exit) install a “Storeroom Lock” on the front door.
They work this way:

• From the inside, the door is always unlocked, no key or twist needed to exit.
• From the outside, a closed door is *always* locked, you need a key to get in.

If you’re forgetful, and leave your keys behind, you‘re locked out. So Sad.
Check your pockets before you leave!

 

[Twowaxhack]

What, moving something? Not if it's still in a common area.

What happens if the renter's irresponsibility leads to someone entering their place and attacking a member of his family?

You can’t stop someone from opening a window because the heats on.

He said she said about the door being unlocked, they could claim the same.


You ever been to court ? There are two sides to every story.

It’s a big mistake to lease a part of your home to a stranger. It’s a risk.

Write a lease with terms. You can’t change the rules in the middle of the lease.

Now if you’d like to build then their own entrance then that’s fine as long as it’s comparable to the entrance they had when they signed the lease.

 

[jav100]

great suggestions on the meters and adding a circulator pump - much more economical than adding another boiler which i think is the usual solution but its pricey long term

ive let them know about windows several times. it is a couple with one child and their mother, she is either forgetful or a rebel - she's the main cause of these things. i'll keep reminding and in the meantime consider these options. i'm reluctant to get too confrontational as we do not want their footsteps to get more intense! the joys of multifamily

regarding the front door - they have had a family member in our town be broken into m and they still sometimes leave the door unlocked, must be plain old lazy. i was brought up in nyc and we had about four locks and a iron pole lock against the door

 

[Bird Doo Head]

Mitchell DIY Guy mentioned sub-meters. It worked quite well at an NFL stadium where I used to be employed.

After installing about 120 of each type of meter and invoicing for usage, the concession people's & the Lion's electricity, gas & water use usage dropped dramatically. Maybe it'll work well for the window opening tenants.

Window open in apartments isn't uncommon. Where I grew up in Detroit, the apartment buildings along the route to school all had windows open all winter. I think it goes back to the late 1800's & early 1900's flu epidemics when every boiler was over-sized. We'd reach between the bars to warm up our hands at the open windows.

 

[GymBag]

You can’t stop someone from opening a window because the heats on.

He said she said about the door being unlocked, they could claim the same.


You ever been to court ? There are two sides to every story.

It’s a big mistake to lease a part of your home to a stranger. It’s a risk.

Write a lease with terms. You can’t change the rules in the middle of the lease.

Now if you’d like to build then their own entrance then that’s fine as long as it’s comparable to the entrance they had when they signed the lease.

I worked in retail for a long time and some of the companies sent us to customer service training- they taught that there are three sides- the one with the complaint, the one being complained to and the truth- each side will have their version.

I have been to court and it's amazing how facts are ignored and omitted, details are made up and how the real version can differ from the truth, from each side.

There aren't many reasons to open windows when the heat is on but I have to wonder if the radiators have thermostatically controlled valves.

 

[GymBag]

Window open in apartments isn't uncommon. Where I grew up in Detroit, the apartment buildings along the route to school all had windows open all winter. I think it goes back to the late 1800's & early 1900's flu epidemics when every boiler was over-sized. We'd reach between the bars to warm up our hands at the open windows.

Public/ low income housing?

 

[Twowaxhack]

There aren't many reasons to open windows when the heat is on but I have to wonder if the radiators have thermostatically controlled valves.

But there are reasons to have the window open and the heat on. By your own admission.

See that wouldn’t have worked out well for you in court.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I say the OP needs to communicate with the tenant and find a solution for both party’s involved.

Or wait until the lease is up and don’t renew it.

 

[MicEd69]

Like Twowaxhack said:

- "You can’t stop a tenant from opening a window if it was operable when they leased it."
- "...there are reasons to have the window open and the heat on."
- "Lawsuit written all over it."

Just do a quick search about the benefits of opening a window in the winter. And suppose the tenant decides to perform a Radon gas test. If they find any, then the landlord would be required to provide an inhabitable apartment which means a Radon mitigation system for the building. The tenant can then stay there with the window open, heat on, until the mitigation system is in place.

And turning off, or even limiting, the heat to an apartment would clearly be a breach of the agreement by the landlord. The result could easily be that the tenant stays in the apartment with perhaps a few electric space heaters rent free until the landlord provides the heat per the original agreement.

A lawsuit based on the landlord turning off or limiting the heat to the apartment would be won by the tenant as the landlord is clearly the party in breach.