Kelly Irwin
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Replace cheap shut off valve for toilet.
- Thread starter Kelly Irwin
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This is one of my concerns, too, as we live in a 2008 house (in San Antonio) that uses these valves. When a plumber came to install a dishwasher and faucet in the kitchen, and another plumber to replace the wax ring in a toilet, we used the opportunity to replace these valves with good quality types that aren't push-pull.
But none of these FlowTite valves have leaked (yes, yet), making me wonder if it's safe to leave them in place. Or is it a foregone conclusion that one day they will?
The builder put a large ball valve in the garage that controls all the water coming in, giving me a quick shutoff. And I've got those small water-leak alarms under all the sinks and toilets and washer to quickly alert me of a leak.
What would you do? Have the valves replaced (at 77, I'm not as big a fan of DIY as I used to be) preemptively or leave the valves in place until they leak?
But none of these FlowTite valves have leaked (yes, yet), making me wonder if it's safe to leave them in place. Or is it a foregone conclusion that one day they will?
The builder put a large ball valve in the garage that controls all the water coming in, giving me a quick shutoff. And I've got those small water-leak alarms under all the sinks and toilets and washer to quickly alert me of a leak.
What would you do? Have the valves replaced (at 77, I'm not as big a fan of DIY as I used to be) preemptively or leave the valves in place until they leak?
Back a few years ago, I called my plumber buddy and just had him change them all out for me, since he was already here doing something else. It honestly wasn't bad, and i had purchased all new quarter turn ball valves, so it was just his labor, but my knees and back were killing be, so it was a few hundred $ spent well.
Mitchell-DIY-Guy
Well-Known Member
Steve, and @Kelly Irwin the other thread that was indicated is one posted by me, and properly answered by one of this forum's most experienced professionals.
I asked the question because I do a lot of handyman work in a 55+ community and their HOA warned the homeowners about this very valve--apparently enough of them have failed (and most homeowners are seniors, a lot of widows, and some very elderly and or handicapped) with costly damage that it became a "directive" from the HOA to the residents. Most of those homes are now 10 years old.
I have the same valves in my home, it's a newer build...but it wouldn't surprise me if it was the same plumbing outfit as it's the largest in the Carolinas and they only do new construction.
What would I do? It's on my list to change mine out to quarter-turn (ball) shut offs, braided toilet connectors. I'll use crimp ring valves.
I hear you, and want to do the same thing. But I still hear my old NCOs telling me, "Private, if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Yes, these crappy valves were "broke" on Day 1, but ... 15 years later, they've never leaked.
OK, OK, I'm convinced and will be looking for a plumbing company to take them out.
RickFlorida
Well-Known Member
Wow, I've never seen these before. I can't believe these exist. Thank you for posting and thanks for everyone explaining how to remove them.
Mitchell-DIY-Guy
Well-Known Member
Well, Rick, it's just one of those things. Someone trying to save a few minutes of time, a few dollars. These things WILL work. They are EASY to install. They are ONE PIECE so no getting a separate valve and hose. They must be CHEAPER compared to other solutions factoring in cost and time. But, they are only available in the commercial market--where? I don't know. There's one plumbing company here in the Carolinas (Price Brothers, if anyone's interested) and they do only new construction, and this is what they use. They bid the work like anyone else. As long as things pass inspection and last beyond the warranty period, the plumber (who works for the builder) and the builder don't really care too much.
It keeps the OTHER plumbers busy!
RickFlorida
Well-Known Member
Yeah it keeps the plumbers busy alright I bet. But it would also keep the flooring people busy, cabinet people busy, and god knows who else busy when a brand new house is flooded from such cheap crap. Wow.
Mitchell-DIY-Guy
Well-Known Member
To be totally fair, they are not failing quickly on newly built homes. The development where I get a lot of work has most homes in its first phase about 9-11 years old now. They are starting to have some things fail, such as water heaters, these valves...smoke detectors need to be replaced, etc. But these valve failures do cause a lot of damage...hence the HOA sending out the directive to have them changed.
Looking at my dad's house, I bet the toilet shutoff is original to the home, 1968.
Crimp ring valves? I've heard of Sharkbite. Is it something like that?
When I get bids from plumbers, how should I word the work to be done so all are bidding on the same job?
Mitchell-DIY-Guy
Well-Known Member
I'm not a plumber, and I don't generally think most plumbers would like to be dictated to as to how they work. I believe that plumbers, like many contractors, have their own way of working, their preferred ways of doing things, honed from years of experience. The best of them will explain to you why they are doing something a certain way or why they prefer one brand over another. I recently hired a plumber to install some gas line for me; he told me exactly what he used and why he used it. I told him the way I would have done it (with black iron pipe) and he gave me plenty of reasons why not to use that in my application. Very forthwith his choices and reasons.
Crimp fittings are fairly common. There are a couple of kinds out there to the best of my knowledge. The one I use is readily available and the tool is inexpensive. It uses stainless steel crimp rings which are inexpensive. There's another crimp style using plastic, I've seen that a lot on new construction.
Here's one: there are plenty like it: https://a.co/d/1omZslc I believe some of the more professional crimp tools use a copper ring. Like this: https://a.co/d/8TZWWVg
The normal kinds of fittings--elbows, tees, couplings, etc. are all available for use with crimp tools.
Here's a crimp stop valve: https://a.co/d/aX9fiWx They all make them since PEX is the primary piping method these days. In fact it's getting harder to find any copper sweat fittings at the big box stores, but you can find nearly any fitting for use with crimp tools.
The OP may not have pex
Mitchell-DIY-Guy
Well-Known Member
Could be. But that FlowTite valve/line thing is a fairly new contraption, and since it's generally only available to pros and only in limited places, its probably unlikely it was used as a re-fit on old pipe. But who knows...in any case I'm sure you would not choose to use them.
Actually, PEX it is. Better than that, the builder also put a panel in the garage that's like an electrical circuit breaker box only for all the PEX lines, letting me close, for example, the water to the upstairs bathroom sink without affecting the water to the rest of the house.
Mitchell, on not telling the plumber what shutoff valve I want, isn't that like going to a mechanic for an oil change and letting HIM select the oil and the filter? To continue the analogy, I might say the oil shouldn't be synthetic, has to be SN or better, has to be 5W-30, and the filter has to be a <insert favorite brand>.
I'm just looking for the right words to use -- or product recommendations -- when I look for plumbers to do this job. I'm not trying to take advantage of them. Am not even worried about being taken advantage of. Just want to make sure the best valves available are used, and I don't know what to ask for.
You’re not the original poster, Kelly Irwin is.
All stop valves will eventually fail. Every one of them. What’s the best is a matter of opinion.
Get a name brand like Brasscraft or Dahl and wait for it to fail, because it’s going to fail.
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That's what I was looking for, thanks. Never heard of either of these companies, but when a professional plumber endorses them, that's good enough for me.
Mitchell-DIY-Guy
Well-Known Member
Brasscraft is very common, you'll see their products everywhere.
Dahl is a Canadian company. Very high quality products though not widely distributed here.
In addition to some common products, Dahl makes a modular valve system where you choose the input (sweat, threaded, crimp, compression) and output (which may be different, the valve body, whether or not you want a throttling control, and the color. Perfect for constructing your own radiant heat or de-icing manifolds which is why I discovered them. At the time--2009--I had to go through a commercial manufacturer's rep in the USA as they didn't have wide distribution. But their valves were spot-on perfect for my application. https://dahlvalve.com/
