The flow rate in most wells do not vary enough to make the pump cycle if it’s suitable for the purpose.
This isn’t controversial.
Your boi valveman also concurs.
Pressure Tank
- Thread starter youngmr46
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The flow rate in most wells do not vary enough to make the pump cycle if it’s suitable for the purpose.
This isn’t controversial.
Your boi valveman also concurs.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index....ssure-valve-cycle-stop-valve-questions.27036/
Link to the post.
Valveman’s post from 2009.
The question was asked and then Valveman answered.
Notice the part of the advantage of a large tank……he says it reduces cycling for smaller draws like a toilet flushing.
Buddy will say anything and has in order to sell his product. Classic shill.
So do toilets cause cycling with small tanks Cary ?
What changed your mind since 2009 ? They did then ……
Link to the post.
Valveman’s post from 2009.
The question was asked and then Valveman answered.
Notice the part of the advantage of a large tank……he says it reduces cycling for smaller draws like a toilet flushing.
Buddy will say anything and has in order to sell his product. Classic shill.
So do toilets cause cycling with small tanks Cary ?
What changed your mind since 2009 ? They did then ……
Every well has drawdown, and recovery rate vary by 10s of feet. Here's one that has around 120 feet.
While this may be on the higher end of drawdown/recovery, let's just assume the drawdown is only 40 feet and we are using an 18HS10 pump.
If an irrigation system needs 15 gpm and is running fine with an 18HS10 at the start of a cycle when it is producing 200 feet of head, and in 30 minutes the drawdown is 40 feet, the pump will pull back on its curve producing less flow rate than needed for the sprinkler heads. There is just no way an irrigation system can operate continuously at design without cycling the pump with a pressure tank, or using a Cycle Stop Valve system, or using a control valve to maintain design pressure at the sprinkler heads.
And I'm pretty sure Valveman will agree with this assessment.
wpns
Well-Known Member
Many irrigation systems don’t have a pressure tank and switch, the controller turns the pump on when the cycle starts (Master Valve output and a contactor) and off when the cycle ends. One cycle per day. And yes , if no water flows the pump head will overheat and melt the PVC fitting off. Been there, done that, added thetemperature sensor. 
Ludington
Well-Known Member
I've seen a lot of arguing about cycle stops. They have thier use, but it is dependant on the needs of the user. Sprinkler systems that run a long time and need constant pressure, sure that's a great example. A house with a lot of people and a small tank, maybe another one. For myself, I have an 80 gallon tank, to go a.ong with my geo heat pump. When it runs, it will run for an average of 10 minutes, and my well pump will run once. Maybe twice, depending on where the pressure is when the hp started or if other things (like the washer, or the wife doing other stuff) is happening. Yesterday my hp ran 35 times, my well ran 40. And yesterday was an odd day as my wife had the oven on for several hours which helped heat up the house. But a cycle stop would have eliminated maybe 4 or 5 starts. So in my case I do not see that it would help. Now I originally had a small 30 gallon tank and it cycled a lot. I'm not sure if cycle stops existed then, but it could have been an option. But putting in the big tank solve my cycle problem. It all depends on the user setup and need. But that's just an opinion. I'm certainly no expert, just a user that knows his own system. But always learning and looking for better solutions. And this forum is great for that.
The cycle stop valve with a small tank would stop cycling on long draws of water but would increase cycling for short draws of water, like flushing the toilet.
Yesterday my wife was cooking and she made several short draws of water at the sink. Washed a dish, washed her hands and filled up a gallon pitcher……my kids flushed the toilets a few minutes apart.
All of those water draws would’ve made a pump cycle with a cycle stop valve.
With a large pressure tank, no cycles or maybe one.
Understand ?
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Ludington
Well-Known Member
Oh, understand, i think that
Was the point I was attempting to make !
A cyclestop would do me no good now, but 25 years ago when I had a small tank, maybe so. But it was changing tO a big tank that fixed my problem... I may even go bigger if I need to change it out.
I’ve serviced several of these systems and a 20 gallon tank will suffice and operate this system very well. Of course the tank isn’t the only component of a properly operating well or cistern system. A 2.2 gallon tank is a setup for failure.on a daily use system.
Since the OP was scared off, I will reply to you first as you are at least a homeowner here looking to learn something. I think that is great. But you need to be careful making assumptions about your own system and taking advice from people on forums, as some are very forthcoming with misinformation.
Your first problem is the HP is cycling. Every time the heat pump cycles the well pump also cycles, even though you have an 80 gallon size pressure tank. There is no Cycle Stop Valve that works on heat pumps, so oversizing them causes the heat pump to cycle.
My heat pump cycles about 6 times per day, and stays on for hours in the afternoon when it is really hot. The HVAC tech wanted to oversize it. I wouldn’t let him. If I let it get really hot inside, it takes hours to cool the house down. But the heat pump is perfectly sized to keep the house warm or cool without many cycles. Consequently, I have a tiny well pump that also runs for hours. A larger heat pump would cycle a lot, making the well pump cycle a lot. It would also require a larger well pump that uses more energy, and the larger heat pump would use more energy.
But yours is fairly typical of an open loop heat pump setup. Adding a Cycle Stop Valve to the large tank you have now would make sure the well pump only cycles once during each heat pump cycle. Like you say, this might save you only 4-5 cycles per day. The heat pump keeps you from seeing the cycles on the well pump that would happen from just everyday house use, as the heat pump already has the well pump cycling. If you used a Cycle Stop Valve with a small tank, the well pump would still cycle 35 times a day as the heat pump cycles. And while the heat pump is on, there would be no extra cycles for water used in the house, as the pump is already running. But the small tank might add a few cycles per day for house use during times the heat pump was not running. However, if the house is already using water when the heat pump comes on, or the heat pump is already running when the house uses water, it would cancel out a few cycles as the pump is already running. Overall, I would bet the CSV and small tank would not cycle anymore than the 80 gallon tank without a CSV, as has happened in many test conducted over the years.
There are a few other advantages to adding the CSV to your system, small tank or large. The CSV gives a mechanical soft stop at only 1 GPM. This eliminates any water hammer and greatly increases the life of check valves and other components in the system. The CSV would also deliver strong constant pressure to the shower. Of course, you would have to wait for the 20 gallons in the 80 gallon tank to be used first as the pressure continues to fall from 60 to 40. But as soon as the pump comes on the CSV would quickly fill the tank to 58 PSI and hold 58 PSI constant for as long as you are in the shower. 58 PSI constant makes a big difference to the shower pressure compared to when the big tank is slowly draining down to 40. You wouldn’t have to wait for the good pressure from the CSV when using the small tank, and the number of cycles per day would be very similar.
Ludington
Well-Known Member
In my particular case, I have done my best to 1) limit the amount of water I'm using and 2) reduce the number of well cycles 3) reduce my electric bill.
I have accomplished all of these. Could I have done better, maybe. But information about the cycle stop was limited when I was upgrading, or I was just oblivious to it. But I'm happy with what I have. I do appreciate the information from this forum. I read it everyday. It's interesting and informative, and sometimes makes me shake my head.
I am fine with my water pressure / flow, while it's at or near the low point.
But I do have information now to keep in the back of my head... at least until it falls out. (Age will do that to you) at least I know where to look back and re-read.
I have accomplished all of these. Could I have done better, maybe. But information about the cycle stop was limited when I was upgrading, or I was just oblivious to it. But I'm happy with what I have. I do appreciate the information from this forum. I read it everyday. It's interesting and informative, and sometimes makes me shake my head.
I am fine with my water pressure / flow, while it's at or near the low point.
But I do have information now to keep in the back of my head... at least until it falls out. (Age will do that to you) at least I know where to look back and re-read.
