Pressure Tank

[youngmr46]

I have a 2 gallon in-line tank for a house with 3.5 baths. Get pressure fluctuations constantly. It's a new tank, so I'm guessing I need to upgrade to a larger tank? Not a ton of plumbing experience here and thought I'd get some insight. Thanks

 

[Twowaxhack]

I have a 2 gallon in-line tank for a house with 3.5 baths. Get pressure fluctuations constantly. It's a new tank, so I'm guessing I need to upgrade to a larger tank? Not a ton of plumbing experience here and thought I'd get some insight. Thanks

You statement doesn’t make any plumbing sense.

 

[Valveman]

Makes perfect sense. Must be cycling on and off like crazy with a 2 gallon tank, which makes pressure go crazy. Will still cycle on and off with a larger tank. Easy to add one of these to the small tank you have and solve that one and lots of other problems.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Where is your 2gal. Pressure tank located ?

Who installed it and why ?

Can you post any pictures of your pump and tank system.

Yes, a 2 gal. tank for the typical well set up would be too small. Who would do that ?

Could it be a thermal expansion tank you’re calling your “ pressure tank “ ?

 

[wpns]

We need some more insight too. . Well water, town water? Please post a picture of this 2 gallon tank and the plumbing around it.

 

[Valveman]

Without knowing any of the details, someone tells me they have a pump problem and I would be right 90% of the time by saying it is caused by the pump cycling on and off. Post in a "pump and well" forum, say you have a new 2 gallon tank and that the pressure is fluctuating constantly, and I can be 99% sure cycling on and off is the problem. Lol!

I would only mention a product, which in this case happens to be my product, if I am 99% sure it will solve the issue and am 100% willing to take it back if it doesn't solve the problem. I don't understand the hate? Some people just don't want a simple, inexpensive, guaranteed solution to the problem I guess.

Looks like all this hate has run off the OP?

 

[Twowaxhack]

Sure, cycling is a problem but the answer isn’t always a cycle stop valve.

Homeowners typically describe parts of their system and misinterpret what the parts of the system are for.

It just doesn’t make sense a person would install a 2 gal tank for the typical Pump system but it’s possible. DIY is often a mess.

There’s no hate…….and just because I have a different opinion, it’s not hate. I’m not WOKE.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Maxing out a pump will prevent cycling.

Depending on the users water use habits a cycle stop valve could cause more cycles with a small tank.

 

[MicEd69]

Maxing out a pump will prevent cycling.

I don't understand this statement. How do you "max out a pump" in a house serviced by a well?

 

[Twowaxhack]

I don't understand this statement. How do you "max out a pump" in a house serviced by a well?

Simple, you use all the water the pump can provide. The pressure tank will not fill to the cut out pressure and the pump will not cycle

 

[MicEd69]

Simple, you use all the water the pump can provide. The pressure tank will not fill to the cut out pressure and the pump will not cycle

So, do you install an injection well and pump the water back down into the ground, or do you just let the water run out into a pond or ditch or creek?

 

[Valveman]

If cycling is the problem then a Cycle Stop Valve is the answer. Homeowners come to forums to find out what the parts are and what they are used for. I find it more common for so called professionals to make a "mess" of a water system and do something like install the 2 gallon tank the OP most likely just "replaced". Many DIYers do the research and their installs look better than many professionals.

Maxing out a pump will prevent cycling. But it is almost impossible to do. Pumps are sized for max flow, which is several times higher than the average flow. Dedicating sprinkler zones to the max flow of the pump will prevent cycling on those sprinkler zones only. Every other thing the pump is used for will cause it to cycle on and off.

Also, when the pump runs at max flow, it is also drawing max amps, making the max heat allowable for the motor, and using up all the pressure if someone wanted to take a shower while the sprinklers where on. Using all the water the pump can provide is not simple. What is simple is adding a Cycle Stop Valve so the pump will not cycle no matter how much or how little water you use.

 

[Twowaxhack]

So, do you install an injection well and pump the water back down into the ground, or do you just let the water run out into a pond or ditch or creek?

Water usage is based on needs.

If you’re using it for irrigation then the zones are designed to match the output of the pump. No cycling occurs.

With a typical house the draws of water are short except for maybe a shower or washing clothes. Water allowed for various fixtures are trending down, not up.

With a large bladder tank you will get many small draws of water between pump cycles. Larger the tank the more you’ll get.

With a small tank and cycle stop valve you will get less of these smaller draws between pump cycles.

See how I explained that without writing it into a long drawn out post ?

 

[Valveman]

With a small tank and cycle stop valve you will get less of these smaller draws between pump cycles.

See how I explained that without writing it into a long drawn out post ?

I am sorry, but not very well. I know it makes you angry for someone to tell you you don't understand, but you still don't understand. If you are worried about small draws, you can use the Cycle Stop Valve with any size tank you want. But most people understand small draws are not what causes cycling.

But even with a small tank the CSV keeps the pump running continuously through many of the small draws, as they usually happen close together. The pump does not come on for every gallon used. The pump is usually already running and the CSV hasn't let it shut off after the last small draw of water, so there is no pump cycle for the next draw of water. You would have to stand there and purposefully wait 2 minutes after flushing before a second flush would cause a second cycle.

I don't know how to explain it any simpler. But it is one of those things many people have to experience.

Sorry to the OP. Most of us where actually trying to help.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I am sorry, but not very well. I know it makes you angry for someone to tell you you don't understand, but you still don't understand. If you are worried about small draws, you can use the Cycle Stop Valve with any size tank you want. But most people understand small draws are not what causes cycling.

But even with a small tank the CSV keeps the pump running continuously through many of the small draws, as they usually happen close together. The pump does not come on for every gallon used. The pump is usually already running and the CSV hasn't let it shut off after the last small draw of water, so there is no pump cycle for the next draw of water. You would have to stand there and purposefully wait 2 minutes after flushing before a second flush would cause a second cycle.

I don't know how to explain it any simpler. But it is one of those things many people have to experience.

Sorry to the OP. Most of us where actually trying to help.

I understand perfectly. That’s your go to……, “ you don’t understand “

I assure you no one’s angry except maybe you.

With a large tank and the basic cycle stop valve the bypass is small and it takes a very long time to fill a large tank back up and reach cut out pressure. Meanwhile the pump is running……

But you know this……..

“ small draws usually happen close together “.

That’s complete nonsense and your whole theory rests on that…….

You set up unrealistic scenarios then find a solution to it. Brilliant and it’s been done throughout history. Make a problem that you have a solution for.

 

[Valveman]

With a large tank and the basic cycle stop valve the bypass is small and it takes a very long time to fill a large tank back up and reach cut out pressure. Meanwhile the pump is running……

With a large tank and a 40/60 switch you set the CSV for 58 PSI and you get two minutes of tank fill time. The pump DOESN'T run a "very long time" to fill even a large tank.

Small draws do happen close together. They only happen during the time of day/night when people are home. Water is used for a couple hours in the morning, maybe a little at noon, then for several hours in the evening. During the time when everyone in the house is getting up and ready for work/school, someone will use water every 2-3 minutes until everyone is out the door. Same thing in the evening. These are called "peak" times, and even city water people know what time of day they happen.

Not understanding these simple concepts it is easy to see why everything else confuses you. You are the one making unrealistic scenarios. Cycling is a problem that has always been there. I didn't cause the cycling problem, just found the solution.

 

[MicEd69]

Water usage is based on needs.

If you’re using it for irrigation then the zones are designed to match the output of the pump. No cycling occurs.

With a typical house the draws of water are short except for maybe a shower or washing clothes. Water allowed for various fixtures are trending down, not up.

With a large bladder tank you will get many small draws of water between pump cycles. Larger the tank the more you’ll get.

With a small tank and cycle stop valve you will get less of these smaller draws between pump cycles.

See how I explained that without writing it into a long drawn out post ?

What you explained in your short post was how much you know about pressure tanks and well pumps, and how little you know about Cycle Stop Valves.

A large pressure tank will cause pressure variations that to some, are a real nuisance. A large pressure tank will reduce well pump cycling, but not near as much as a Cycle Stop Valve.

 

[Twowaxhack]

What you explained in your short post was how much you know about pressure tanks and well pumps, and how little you know about Cycle Stop Valves.

A large pressure tank will cause pressure variations that to some, are a real nuisance. A large pressure tank will reduce well pump cycling, but not near as much as a Cycle Stop Valve.

That’s your opinion and I think your wrong, that’s my opinion.

I work in customers homes everyday and I have a family of 5. I understand how people use water. I talk to my customers.

But to humor you both I’m going to connect a cycle counter into a friends well with the standard 40 gal tank and see how many cycles we get in a month then multiply x 12.

He doesn’t use it for irrigation.

People typically make many small draws like flushing toilets, washing hands and filling pots.…with a cycle stop valve and the pony tank it would cause more cycling of the pump.

Valveman admits this with the toilets in one of his many online posts. I found it on Terry Loves forum. Find it for yourself.

 

[Twowaxhack]

With a large tank and a 40/60 switch you set the CSV for 58 PSI and you get two minutes of tank fill time. The pump DOESN'T run a "very long time" to fill even a large tank.

Small draws do happen close together. They only happen during the time of day/night when people are home. Water is used for a couple hours in the morning, maybe a little at noon, then for several hours in the evening. During the time when everyone in the house is getting up and ready for work/school, someone will use water every 2-3 minutes until everyone is out the door. Same thing in the evening. These are called "peak" times, and even city water people know what time of day they happen.

Not understanding these simple concepts it is easy to see why everything else confuses you. You are the one making unrealistic scenarios. Cycling is a problem that has always been there. I didn't cause the cycling problem, just found the solution.

A large tank can be pretty big. What do you call a large tank ? The real answer is 1-3 gal per minute depending on size of the pump. Correct ?

As I said, your go to is “ you don’t understand “

What you don’t understand is I’m not taking your opinion on when people use water as fact. My opinion is people make many short draws and with a smaller tank you’ll end up with more cycles.

A shower and maybe clothes washing is the only extended water use that most people use. The rest are short draws.

I good irrigation designer can design a system that prevents the system from cycling.

A cycle stop valve would be good for a person who has an irrigation system that either can’t flow max GPM or is has design flaws.

 

[MicEd69]

I good irrigation designer can design a system that prevents the system from cycling.

So, does a good irrigation system include a control valve of some sort, like a Cycle Stop Valve system? Because that is the ONLY way an irrigation system won't cycle the well pump.

The flow rate from a well varies based on the water level in the well that varies based on the flow rate out of the well, the replenishing rate, and even seasonal changes in the aquifer.