Help with pipe plan

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plumbstupid

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So I have a bathroom in the back of a garage that I need to plumb. Everything is on the back (outside) wall (where my fingers are showing) and I want the drain pipe to be outside the structure.

I can't find much information online about how to pipe this. Specifically, since there is a concrete grade beam along that wall I'm confused at how to pipe it. I know that we need to sleeve any pipe through the grade beam so don't understand how we can pipe for a vent and still keep that in some additional sleeve.

Any help is appreciated it.
 

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Can you post your floor plan of your bathroom layout? How deep is the footer? What is your sanitary connecting to outside?
You don't need to sleeve the vertical pipe coming through the footer.
 
Usually we put drainage inside a house until it exits the house all together. the ground is stable
also what reelplumber said frost can be a problem .
 
Footer is 12" wide by 30" deep.
IPC by the way
Texas by the way so no frost line issues
Prefer as much drainage as possible outside the slab for future proofing of any issues
Assuming I can't do a bath like attached sample through a grade beam but is that incorrect assumption?
 

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There shouldn't be a problem to run separate drains from each fixture to a main line running outside and parallel with your grade beam. You just need to sleeve each drain line and make sure the length from your fixture to its vent isn't too far per the IPC. The issue, as you point out, is the location of the vent. In your case, the easiest installation would be to install the vents immediately outside the grade beam.

But it would be possible to use 6x6x4 or 8x8x4 tees and pipe as sleeves to allow the installation of the vents up the grade beam and through garage walls to the roof. Just note that the connections to the main drain should be at a 45-degree angle as you sketch shows, so those sleeves need to be cut and angled through the grade beam. And the 4" vertical for the vent sleeve needs to be centered to allow proper rebar coverage along the grade beam wall. A little trickier installation, but with proper planning, very doable.
 
So I've abandoned the idea of having the luxury of my drain completely outside the slab.

Now, I thought the plan in the picture should work. The top pipe is a washing machine, followed by a sink (yes it currently has a 3") that will act as a wet vent for the toilet (about 5'4") before tying in to the main drain, and last is the shower. This wall all we have in the footing are some 90's and vertical.
Questions (generically speaking of course):
1. Is the wet vent layout "proper"?
2. Given each of the 3 drain pipes (not the toilet) will be coming out of the footing (30" deep x 12" wide) do they need to be in 2-size bigger conrete or is wrap okay?
3. Should each drain pipe come out of the footing at a 90 instead of 45?
4. Anything you suggest different otherwise?
 

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Let me describe what I think you are planning and offer a few comments.

The main sewer line is the 4" pipe with a clean out at the top of the picture.

The 2" pipe at the top of the picture is for a washing machine. Once through the top of the concrete floor, it will require a P-trap and a vent for that P-trap. And it should enter the 4" main with a reducing wye.

The next line down in the picture is 3" which will extend up as the main vent stack through the roof maintaining its 3" size the entire length. The sink will drain into that 3" stack. If the sink drain is the normal 1 1/2" size, it needs to be within 6' of the stack and enter the stack with a sanitee. The 3" stack will then be the vent for the sink P-trap. Then 5' 4" from that stack will be a toilet. The toilet branch needs to enter that 3" horizontal sewer line through a wye fitting. The toilet will be correctly wet vented with this arrangement. That 3" line should enter the main with a reducing wye.

The bottom 2" line in the picture is for a shower. You said, "each of the 3 drain pipes.....will be coming out of the footing" and "all we have in the footing are some 90's and vertical". So will the P-trap be imbedded in the floor slab and not the grade beam? Or will it be below the floor slab and far enough away from the grade beam such that only 2 drain pipes will be coming out of the footing? In any case, the 2" shower P-trap needs a sanitee vent coming off the top of the branch line, or no more than 45 degrees off vertical, and within 8 feet from the shower P-trap.

Note that both the washing machine vent and the shower vent can connect to the 3" stack vent below the roof. All lines should have a 1/4" per foot slope, and the vent lines need to slope towards the sewer lines. The vent lines can slope more than the 1/4" per foot if needed.

The lines coming out of the footing can be at any angle, but the fewer fittings the better, so the 45-degree exit from the footing would be the best.

There are no issues with imbedding PVC piping in concrete, and it really doesn't even need to be wrapped. With that size of grade beam and the lines being under a concrete slab, there should not be any concerns with settling causing an issue with the lines. But I assume the 4" main sewer does exit the grade beam and is sleeved, correct?
 
Thank you muchly for responding.

All pretty much correct...and yes the 4" exiting the grade beam will be sleeved with 6" and foam.

In reading your comments I realized that yes the p-trap for shower would be sitting in grade beam and easiest thing to do is move to opposite side of shower and voila!

So one clarification though. I was planning on using a 4x4x3 wye to enter the 3" vent stack into the toilet branch BEFORE the toilet branch enters the main sewer line with a 4x4x4 wye. However it sounds like you're saying the 3" can enter the main sewer and then after that the toilet will enter the main sewer.

Is that what you're saying?
Is one way better or "proper" more than the other?
 
I re-read your response and think I originally misunderstood it as you referred to the 3" as the sewer line when talking about it connecting to the toilet branch...

So again, thank you so much for your response. It made me feel like I can move forward this weekend with the work.
 
Attached is a sketch of what I tried to describe. The main thing to remember is that each trap needs a vent. And if I understood your description correctly, with the toilet is being connected to the 4" main, it will not be vented correctly with what I currently understand is your layout. See my sketch and I hope that helps. With the toilet going into the 3" line before it connects to the 4" main, and using a 3x3x3 wye with a street 90, and the toilet being 5'4" from what I'm calling the vent stack at the wall, it will be wet vented correctly.

And moving the shower drain so the P-trap won't be in the grade beam is the best move. The 1 1/2" vent for the shower should be either vertical or no more than 45 degrees off vertical. It depends on the governing code on where that vent needs to be. Hopefully you will be able to locate the shower vent in a wall and still meet the governing code distance. If you are not requiring a permit or inspection, like if you are in a rural area, you could use the 8-foot dimension even if you officially live in an area where the more stringent code is in place, and your system will obviously still work correctly.

1644698689202.png
 
So the pipe on the 45 degree is the 3" wet vent. I put the red square in place to show where the concrete footing ends (long edge)(the string line is just for my toilet). Since that pipe is coming out of the footing, do I need to put a sleeve on it? Should I make the sleeve to include a 90 and come up the 3" 90 too?
 

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OK, I'm glad you came back with this picture. I thought your toilet was going to be farther away from the grade beam. I was taking a few liberties on the wet vent on my sketch, and that is why I said to use a 3" wye and a street 90 for the toilet riser so that connection to the 3" line would the minimum distance possible. Now that I know where the toilet is, a MUCH better layout would be to move the 3" vent stack up in your picture. You can come out perpendicular to the grade beam directly under the toilet, and connect the toilet to the 3" horizontal with a combo fitting. Put in a 45 along that 3" line after the toilet so you still connect to the 4" main at a 45-degree angle. You should still be able to locate your sink where you want it and have it discharge into that 3" stack. Worst case, assuming I can judge the dimensions of you picture, you will need to increase the size of the horizontal drain from your sink to 2".

And no, a sleeve is not required for this approach.

Sorry for the confusion, but the above is definitely the way to go.
 
Soooooo, I took the day off to work on this and the picture shows what I have so far (3" and 2" are not glued yet).

...but what it sounds like you're saying is to change it to the picture I've drawn based on my understanding of your info?

If so, I will go with it since you said it would be MUCH better...I would like to know why it would be better though.
 

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OK, per code a vent needs to come off the top of a drain line and no more than 45 degrees off vertical. But in my first sketch, the 3" oversized horizontal line from the stack would actually function as a vent. But I was really thinking the line from the toilet to the branch line woukd be as short as possible. Your current fabrication has a section of pipe before the branch connection from the toilet. But now knowing the toilet is very close to the grade beam, going with your sketch above makes the "bad" horizontal run of the vent section significantly shorter therefore MUCH better. Now let me say that there is some discussion on upstream venting of a toilet. So, at the risk of further confusion, here is another approach that looks feasible as it seems like the drains are pretty far below the top of the grade beam, and this approach would really properly vent the toilet in strict accordance with any code.

First of all, the toilet line can be 3" all the way to the 4" main. And as the toilet is the only thing flowing into that line per your sketch, the higher velocity of the 3" line would help keep the line clean with today's low flush toilets.

Now let's start at the line under the toilet. Put a regular 90 on the line pointing directly up to where the toilet flange will be. Put a 3x3x3 wye, or 4x4x3 wye if you stay with the 4" line to the 4" main, and point the wye parallel with the grade beam. Install a long radius 90 on the wye going into the grade beam at a 45-degree angling up, and then a 45 fitting to get the vent stack vertical and centered in the grade beam, or wherever in the grade beam you want the vent to come up. If the dimensions are really tight, using street fittings (90s, wyes, 45s) will save you a few inches over regular fittings and pipe. And if the long radius 90 angling up at 45 degrees isn't possible, you can get a 60-degree fitting and angle the long radius 90 to 30 degrees up.

I hope this helps and doesn't cause you too much redo.
 
Well right now it's more about confusion so let me ask this:

1. So the way I fabricated it with the wet vent is not going to pass code?

2. Is the picture with the 4" sweep T going to 3" vent (pipe is laying on side for visual--picture it rotated vertically 90d), not within code? I assumed it would not pass. Even if it did, that would force my pipe down lower than I'd like it to be since this is the back of the property and I need that pipe started as high up as possible.

3. Is the other picture basically what you were explaining above? The yellow circle would be the 3" vent stack and then 45 down to sweep 90. I get that the size of fittings are wrong, I just wanted to physically model it for a picture first.

If 3 is what you were recommending, the only challenge is that, it might interfere with the shower drain space-wise...
 

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Maybe I'm making this more difficult then it needs to be?

Won't this work just fine with the 3" being a dedicated vent?
 

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Okay. So I now realize the horizontal dry vent can't be less than 45 below FLR. So previous picture is out.

Did my mockup before that interpret your suggestion correctly?
 
So very sorry for the confusion. And it is good to know that this will be inspected. I kinda thought this was in a rural area for some reason.

First let me state that when I said, " I was taking a few liberties on the wet vent on my sketch", I should have said that horizontal venting isn't allowed in most jurisdictions: that is the vent not coming off the line no more than 45 degrees off vertical. The issue is that it is possible to get it plugged should a backup occur. However, I was able to do so in a house I renovated as the inspector was "knowledgeable of the purpose of the code" rather than a "code enforcer" with no practical understanding of why the code says what is says. I had a 4-foot section horizontal due to the HVAC unit location. It wasn't going to be a wet vent which would be a problem, so I made it a wet vent by installing the washer riser into the vent stack. That meant with each washer load, it would flush out any obstruction on the horizontal wet vent line. But I digress.

Sketch 1 is what I was trying to convey without knowing your elevation requirements. It is a view looking at the interior of the grade beam. I made the assumption you had some elevation to work with that may not exist based on your recent comments. The assembly is fitting to fitting makeup. Starting at the bottom is a 90, then a 4x4x3 wye (which can be a street wye to save an inch or so) with the 3" wye branch parallel with the grade beam. Then a section of pipe whatever length is required to get your closet flange to the correct elevation. Now off the 3' wye branch, a long radius 90 (again perhaps a street to save an inch or so) that is going into the grade beam rotated up at a 45-degree angle. Inside the grade beam is a final 45 that will make the vent vertical.

But you said elevation may be at a premium, so sketch 2 show a solution that will also meet code. Similar to one of your mockups, run the toilet line parallel with the grade beam for a length. Then within 6 feet of the toilet riser install a 4x4x3 reducing combo fitting rolled at a 45-degree angle into the grade beam. Then install a 45 in the grade beam to get the vent stack vertical and your set. The sink can also drain into the 3" stack making the toilet vent a wet vent.

1645027949529.png
 
I believe code in my area stats washer box to tie into 3" stack, it may have changed in one of the recent updates.. Why not run that line to the washer in 3", it certainly wont hurt.
 
First, thank you so much for your willingness to help and generosity in taking the time to draw things out. I truly appreciate it.

Second, to back up to the beginning, we're in this "mess" because I assume the attached No Pass Code drawing would not pass any code with a fitting sticking out of a grade beam like that. Is that accurate?

Third, I realized (after pondering your solution) this morning that I have the bathroom wall to work with for the toilet venting. That being said, I then realized I could then go through the grade beam properly to get outside the structure, and therefore drew up a new plan.

Is there anything about this that looks "off"?
 

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