best way to connect a pvc drain to the main iron drain?

Discussion in 'General Plumbing Help' started by the13bats, Jun 12, 2018.

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  1. Jun 12, 2018 #1

    the13bats

    the13bats

    the13bats

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    Okay, it tried to hurt me today but i got it apart,

    I have a main iron drain, toilet sits on top of it and where it Ts off for the vent the 1.5 galvanized tub and sink drain pipe was screwed in there,

    The gal pipe was toast and after an hour i got it and its busted rusted threads out of that iron drain 1.5 hole,
    The iron holes threads are actually very nice condition.

    So now i want to use pvc for the tub and sink drain pipe what is the up to code best way to attach a 1.5 pvc to that threaded 1.5 iron hole ?

    Thanks
    b
     
  2. Jun 12, 2018 #2

    jwwing

    jwwing

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    You should be able to purchase schedule 40 pvc in 1.5" and a pvc 1.5" adapter to screw into the hole. I would use the schedule 40 all of the way to the tub if you can figure out how to do it. No sliding stuff. Of course, you have to use Teflon tape on the threads (except the P-trap) and glue the joints LOL. The new installation should look a lot like the original. Try to make everything as straight and as level as possible with a slight (very slight) downward slope to the stand pipe (large drain with the 1.5" threaded hole). Don't worry if you can't get it perfectly level, it will fill in with gunk and stuff which will reduce the size of the drain - which in turn will collect every bit of hair and other debris that reduces the size of the drain until it finally closes it off. The same thing will happen if the pvc is not supported often enough - it will sag. No problem for many years until it finally builds up enough gunk to close off a 3" pipe! That gunk just keeps on growing!

    The only problem I have had is to make the distances come out right, so allow the P-trap to offset the difference. In other words, cut the pieces so that it is a little too long and misalign the p-trap side-to-side to allow easy connect/disconnect for servicing.
     
  3. Jun 12, 2018 #3

    the13bats

    the13bats

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    Many Thanks jwwing,

    It will have a slight slope not a problem there,

    Lets see if i can word this correcly,

    The 1.5 hole in the stand pipe wasnt 100% in line with the sink drain, so i assume it was orginal to the house or ar some point the entire floor was out of the bathroom but that old 1.5 galvanized sink drain pipe had a slight bend meaning it was bent after screwed in as there wouldnt have have been room to screw it bent,

    And yeah, that 1.5 galvanized sink drain was blocked up solid, rust, gunk, etc but dry hasnt had water for about 20 plus years,
    My wife tina joking but serious said give me the old plugged pipes ill take them in the yard and make sure there's no treasures in that muck, lol

    So besides the little light bend it was a semi straight shot from stand pipe to sink, but i can move that sink end over some i have several feet to place the sink and its drain and have no problem getting creative with the P trap arrangments, i will try to let where the stand pipe hole points dictate sink placement and drain if possible.

    The tub was just T,ed into that sink drain run about half way between sink and stand pipe,
    That tub drain was replaced with pvc but i have to start from scratch, the tub is massive, at least 6 foot iron clawfoot sitting on cinder blocks, weights in like a small car will actually have to use a roller jack to lift and move it,
    Not 100% sure where it will be so the tub drain will be capped for a little while,

    They busted a hole when they changed out the tub drain, never hooked it to the tub and work ended, not sure if one long piece of pvc can be feed or i will have to use couplers as they did glued at about a foot apart, i will try hard to use one piece,

    Heres some questions,

    On the pvc to stand pipe adaptor you said use teflon tape, do i need any sealer or dope on those threads or should tape be good?

    For the tub drain to sink drain pipe should i just us a T or is the Y junction better?

    The stand pipe has a huge vent tube but over in the wall of the sink the sink had a 1.5 galvanized pipe vent that heads up inside the wall,
    It wasnt wet so not rusted, do i need the sink vent and should reuse that or is that stand pipe vent enough?
    If i have a sink vent i assume it connects on top of P trap as close to sink bottom as possible?

    Last, on the floor it goes tile then about 3 inchs of two kinds of cement type mud, not hard to beat through, the tile is tougher,
    Then a wood floor and the drains are under that wood floor in the space above the first floor ceiling,
    So does more "mud" have to be poured where holes are in the bathroom floor or are there other ways to build up that 3 inches,
    Im considering tearing all the mud out, seems overkill and added weight,
    That stand pipe with toilet on it and hall floor level dictated how high that mud had to be,

    But i was thinking why not like use boards to get up high enough then just plywood floor with tile or whatever on it...like other rooms floors are done

    Many thanks for the help,

    Cheers
    bats
     
  4. Jun 13, 2018 #4

    jwwing

    jwwing

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    Sounds like you have it well in hand!

    I am assuming that the tub and the sink are in the same area and that they are relative to the same floor. The only thing that I would be concerned about is that the pipe for the drain is only 1.5" when it really needs to be larger. And if you drain it fast, it will affect the sink, just like a stool does. So it is not clear that an additional vent is available as mentioned later. The only reason for making the drain as straight as possible is to avoid all of the work of assembling a bunch of small pieces, possible settling of the pipe on a long run and avoiding plugging due to turbulence. I once had a 1.5" that fed into a 3" and it plugged regularly at that joint.

    The tub sounds like a beauty - I suggest building a padded cradle to carry it on and use at least two jacks to lift it: one on each end or on alternate corners (kitty-corner). If you use long 2x4's on edge and crosswise piece between them on each end, they would provide jack points to lift the tub. Build it with a 2x4 underneath of it so that it fits up against the tub. When assembled, the jacks will lift it after only an inch of travel or so as long as the tub walls are angled. The jacks are about $30 each at Harbor Freight or places like that and will easily lift it and roll too. Alternatively, if you can figure some way to get the jack under it, just use ordinary movers' pallets - they have four wheels and one on each end should do it. (I guess I have assumed that the legs are sticking out from the corners so that the 2x4's will go under and that the tub is sloped on sides and ends.)

    When I do it I prefer thread dope, but the preferred method is teflon tape - either should work just fine (this is not pressurized)

    The only reason to use a T would be if you cannot stand the length of the sweeping Y. Normally, you would have the tub come down with a larger say 2" pipe and the T with the Y shape going into it downward. Alternatively if they are at the same level and are the same size 1.5", then the Y is almost essential and it should feed toward the stand pipe. The tub drain should be designed as straight as possible and the drain from the sink is secondary to it so the T or Y should have the Y part pointing toward the stand pipe. I believe the T's are made with one straight through and the other (the T) is really a short Y. They Y is there to prevent turbulence that causes plugging.

    I don't think that you normally would need one, but if one is available, use it if at all possible. It could be that the tub does not have a vent so it could be more important for that reason. If this is the situation, then you could experience the tub sucking the sink's p-trap to get air (even if each has it's own vent this sometimes happens). So use the vent if you possibly can.

    The distance from the sink bottom is not the important part - that is for your convenience in cleaning it out. The vent T should be positioned so that the P-trap can drain to it (obviously) and the output of the P-trap goes into the Y down of a T from the vent. Alternatively, the T for the vent could be straight through T from the P-trap towards the tub drain pipe and the vent's Y from above should face towards the direction of the flow - away from the P-trap. The P-trap is supposed to keep sewer gases from escaping into the house through the sink and has to be on the sink side of the vent - that is, vent air must be pulled from the vent, not the P-trap. So I am not sure what you mean by 'on top of ' but I hope this clarifies how to configure it. The vent pipe is like a vertical pipe with several p-traps connected to it. Technically, it becomes a vent pipe after the last one before the access to vent air outside the house, but acts as a drain pipe after the first drain dumps into it. Care must be taken that the vent is as large as the drains it serves - larger if more than one or two and as large as the largest. It is acceptable generally to run a branch vent back to a larger vent pipe and T to it, but it is usually cheaper to go out of the house near the drain location than to make a return run.

    That does not sound good - the mud part! When you prepare to put the pipes in place, back them up with the material that is available and used elsewhere in the house for support of plumbing pipes, just make sure that it supports the pipes adequately. When you are convinced that it is all working ok, no leaks and all inspections are done you can button it up. The mud sounds like a local requirement and you might want to check with local authorities on whether or not you need to keep it - I would be inclined to remove it. Depends on why it is there. Somebody else needs to chime in here - I am not familiar with the use of 'mud' - it was probably for the support of the cast iron pipes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  5. Jun 13, 2018 #5

    the13bats

    the13bats

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    Thanks again, big help,

    What i called mud was just my slang blanket term,
    Its not really concrete, close but not as hard to bust up with a hammer, the tiles are harder,

    It goes, tiles in their thin mud, then next layer mud about an 1.5" and another type mud another 1.5 then a 1" wood floor, the mud oddly didnt stick to then open space about 8 inches until you get to the wood ceiling top of the first floor,

    The pipes are on top of that first floor ceiling
    So supporting the pipes i add are not a problem,

    The stand drain is in a cornor with toilet and the other cornor of that end is the sink, the tub is long ways drain end pointing at the room end with sink and toilet on sink side of room so tub was tied into sink drain that was the direct run to stand pipe,

    Ill do some looking and thinking, it would be diagonal across room but i might can straight run tub to stand pipe and tap sink drain to it,

    I understood about the sink vent and no the tub didnt have its own vent so no a big deal to vent sink to be safe,

    Again, many thanks
     
  6. Jun 17, 2018 #6

    jwwing

    jwwing

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    the13bats: is this the same project that they closed you out on yesterday or something else?

    I think that I understood your dilemma with the answer that they gave you and why they also were ticked at you (but not really right in doing it). It is hard for me to go back and forth in the web site, so if you want and the 'powers that be' don't stop us, you can re-ask those questions and I will attempt to answer if I know the answer instead of getting pissy. But they have stopped allowing comments per agreement of the kings of this site, so chances are they will stop this one too.

    But if they don't I am willing to give it a whirl if you copy what you want to know into this thread so I can answer. BTW I reported the decision so I may not last long either.
     
  7. Jun 17, 2018 #7

    havasu

    havasu

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    I am certainly not the king of any site, just a volunteer who has seen the professionals in here who volunteer their time in order to help folks for nothing more than an occasional thank you. When I see them get snide remarks, it gets me upset. Some folks just want to do it the way they want, regardless of how many people say it is wrong, incorrect, unsafe, illegal, etc, and I've noticed that the professionals were already done and there was nothing else to discuss. I have no problem reopening the thread, but please leave the snarky posts out of the conversation.
     
  8. Jun 18, 2018 #8

    SHR

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    havasu, you are the best mod anywhere. "the 13bats" and "jwwing" deserve each other. Let them message incorrect and dangerous information back and forth. Thank you for closing down the classic ask for free advice, get great spot-on advice then argue because you the OP (the 13bats) know more than the professionals thread. This member must be a bot to be so rude and uninformed.
     
    havasu likes this.
  9. Jun 18, 2018 #9

    jwwing

    jwwing

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    I come on this site at the invitation of the site. I did not make any comment to you that should make you badmouth me. If there are no 'kings' on this site, then they should act like human beings and treat others with respect. That did not happen. If you smart-mouthed are so pure, then you deserve each other and you can pretend to be something that you aren't all you want.

    I think that if you read through the 'other thread' that was referred to without a jaundiced eye, you will see that the disdain and disrespect shown to a man with many talents was mortifying and uncalled for - it was as though the person who started the disrespect was shamefully transparent. Calling someone's proposed solution to a problem and his reasoning for questioning their answers to them is not idiotic as he referred to them and the worst part was that havasu supported that behavior at the expense of the 13bats - and now me by 'liking' your insane accusations.

    I don't doubt that havasu is a great person and that he or she has done many great things, but what I saw was despicable. It was against the rules of the site and was out of line totally - plus he closed the thread.

    I am going to report your undeserved accusations towards me as well. There wasw no place in this thread or the other that either of us downplayed or denigrated either of those responding professionals. the 13bats did comment that he had experience with people who do cheat and the 'kings' that I referred to took that to mean them - if the are not acting like they think that they are kings then at least they are acting with a certain amount of chutzpah!
     
  10. Jun 18, 2018 #10

    jwwing

    jwwing

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    Sir: there was no such thing in the exchange between you three kings and the 13bats. He is absolutely right in questioning you and he has every right to do so - the only thing that I can surmise is that his reasoning led you all to realize that he was right and that you did not know the answer. If you don't like being referred to as 'kings' then don't act as though you think others are below you. Just look back at the comments and come up with an excuse for what you did!

    And as for snarky comments, in my book the snarky comments have come from your side of this discussion - not necessarily from you - but you encouraged them and then you sided with their wrong approach to applying your prejudices by referring to questioning of your perfect wisdom as though you are some kind of gods. You are humans, just like us.

    Now for the smart-mouth, I am 75 years old. A graduate of the University of Minnesota and the University of Washington with a degree in electronics engineering. I spent a large part of my life working on homes, building houses and other buildings, building and reconstructing machinery, and, yes, fixing plumbing errors in the houses that I had built for me who used professional plumbers. There is nothing sacrosanct about being a 'professional' - I will put my experience up against yours any time. But that said, I know that you are more involved in day-to-day plumbing and the requirements of the trade than I am. There is no place in this dissertation that I said that I agreed with the 3bats either, but that is what I am accused of - and yes, I am incensed at this licentious behavior on such a worthwhile site.

    Now stop this BS and let us have a discussion of something worthwhile - like why someone should or should not use specifically designed metal to plastic or vice versa transitions rather than connect directly and under what conditions it would be considered to be okay as you all seemed to agree it was for a moment until it wasn't and the 3bats pointed out that disingenuous fact.
     
  11. Jun 18, 2018 #11

    frodo

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    by code
    you use a 1.5'' DWV threaded male adapter
    you do not use a 1.5 pvc pressure male adabter


    any more advice given will require a picture down loaded , so the advice is correct
     
  12. Jun 18, 2018 #12

    jwwing

    jwwing

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    Right a 1.5" DWV in either ABS or PVC, use the same pipe system throughout. Why did you make a distinction between pressure and DWV? If he used the pressure version of PVC, would it not actually be stronger? Most codes specify minimums don't they or preferred minimums, not maximums? I mean, he could use copper or cast iron if he wanted to stand the expense.
     
  13. Jun 18, 2018 #13

    frodo

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    pressure fittings are not allowed 'per code'' to be used in a drainage system
    only fittings MARKED DWV may be used
    A dwv MIP is different thread length and thread pitch that a DWV MIP
     
  14. Jun 18, 2018 #14

    jwwing

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    Something useful! I doubt seriously that the pitch is different, but I'll take your word for it.

    However, if a pressure PVC is used on a run for a drain, there will be no problem and it will fit. I have seen it done. In general, the code does not prevent the stronger material from being used - here again, are the threads on a copper fitting shorter or longer or the same size as the DWV - the answer is they are the same and the difference to the heavier pvc cannot be counted in full threads, so where is the beef? This is a pure question. If you are right, you can show it easily.
     
  15. Jun 18, 2018 #15

    frodo

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    the code says you can not use a fitting that is not marked DWV on a DWV system
    pressure fittings are not marked dwv
    that will get a red tag from any inspector in any state

    I have wasted all the time i am going to on you,
     
  16. Jun 18, 2018 #16

    Matt30

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    You can plumb your entire house with garden hose scraps and hose clamps, and it will work. That doesn't make it right.

    Once a code violation is found, discussion is over. That's our bible.
     

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