American Standard 4094/4095 tank/toilet flush problem

[DonFL]

I have a 20ish year old American Standard toilet, tank model is stamped 4094/4095.

Had one of the plastic tabs that the flapper hooks to break off, ordered a replacement AS flush valve. Decided since I had to remove the tank, I'd replace the tank mounting bolts also, and since that kit came with the rubber gasket that fits over the flush valve, i'd replace that also. So its new flush valve, new gasket, new bolts.

The new gasket was a different design compared to the old one, more cone shaped and less of a lip or edge on it, but everywhere I check, that shows to be the new design replacing the old gasket.

Replaced the flush valve, reassembled, everything bone dry and leak free, but now, I get maybe one good flush out of 5-10..the rest of them, the water swirls, but never goes down.

It flushed fine, prior to my repair work, but I'm at a loss as to what could be different, or what i did wrong.

I've done the following:

1. made sure tank is snug to the bowl, bolts are tight, I'd be afraid any further tightening might crack the tank or bowl
2. ensured the bowl jets are clear, just in case any crud from the old gasket was clogging one or more.
3. did the 5 gallon test, bowl empties, so no clogs. Plus, it flushed fine prior..
4. flush valve, flapper, etc are all the same that was in the tank prior to the repair and worked fine..no changes there.
5. the other remaining AS toilet in the house works fine; comparing to my problem child, tank and bowl water levels are the same...literally, identical.

Again, this thing flushed fine prior to starting the repair..so not like that was the issue to begin with, so it has to be something with the repair itself.

Could it be something with the new gasket? I have the old one, its worn as one would expect from a 20 year old toilet, and I hate to disassemble everything and swap back to the old one unless I know for sure thats the culprit. Plus I'd be a little wary of leaks, but maybe that wouldn't be a problem.

I'm at a loss..suggestions?

 

[Twowaxhack]

Post a pic of the inside of the tank

 

[DonFL]

Empty and full.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Flapper looks new. How long does it stay open when you flush ? Does it let most all the water out of the tank ?

Switch flappers with one of your other toilets and see what happens.

 

[havasu]

Is that an AS flapper as well?

Was the toilet removed, then replaced after rebuilding it?

 

[Twowaxhack]

Raise the water level to within 1/4” of the top of the flushvalve. Regardless of what the water line in the tank says.

Make sure your ballcock refill tube is wide open refilling the bowl through the black hose clipped on the flushvalve.

 

[DonFL]

@Twowaxhack...yes, relatively new flapper, less than a year old. Just swapped, and the flappers are fine. No change in behavior of either toilet, flushing or non-flushing.

@havasu...not an AS flapper, has not been an AS flapper for years. My other remaining AS toilet also does not have an AS flapper and works fine. I only removed the tank, the toilet was not removed, has never been removed since I built the house (20 years).

 

[Twowaxhack]

Time how long the water takes to leave the tank on the toilet that works vs the one that doesn’t. They’re the same toilet brand and model right ?

 

[DonFL]

Raise the water level to within 1/4” of the top of the flushvalve. Regardless of what the water line in the tank says.

Make sure your ballcock refill tube is wide open refilling the bowl through the black hose clipped on the flushvalve.

Can't raise the water level any higher due to the shape of the flush handle. That said, I can test it manually, me just acting as the flush arm, and see if that fixes it, and its simply, with the new flush valve in place I need more water. If so, I'll need to change out the arm.

 

[DonFL]

Time how long the water takes to leave the tank on the toilet that works vs the one that doesn’t. They’re the same toilet brand and model right ?

Will do that now before raising water level. Yes, same brand, literally installed the same day many moons ago.

 

[Twowaxhack]

If there’s a flush jet in the bottom of the bowl, make sure it’s open and water jets out when you flush

 

[DonFL]

If there’s a flush jet in the bottom of the bowl, make sure it’s open and water jets out when you flush

I think that may be it. Getting some water out of the flush jet, but compared to the working toilet, nowhere near as much. Definitely can feel something in the way, a solid object floating in there, but now need to figure out the best way to get to it. Hoping I can get a grip on it and pull it out. I can't say for sure that is it, but if something slipped down the flush valve in the midst of me doing all the work I did yesterday, that would explain why the issue just started.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Now you’re on it’s trail. Good luck !

 

[DonFL]

Now you’re on it’s trail. Good luck !

Seems like that is definitely it. Problem is, I cannot get a grip on it with fingers or pliers and whatever else I've tried. Whatever it is seems thin and pliable enough to where if I could grap it I could likely pull it thru the jet hole.

If I have to remove the toilet to get it out, thats beyond what I'm confident in attempting...likely would have a plumber come and do that task, or, just go with a new toilet.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I use a variety of things. Short Sawzall blade, dental pick cut in half, piece of a wire coat hanger, bent nail, shop vac

Whatever works.

 

[DonFL]

I'm at wits end...close to admitting defeat. I can feel this thing, had a grip on it for a second with some tweezers, but not enough grip to pull it forward. Not sure its flexible enough (feels like hard plastic, and I'm pretty sure I know what it is..one of those damned plastic tabs from an AS flapper float) to even be able to be pulled thru the jet hole, but at this point, can't get a grip to find out.

Short of pulling up the toilet and extracting whatever it is that way, can't think of any other options.

 

[Geofd]

Heat up a metal coat hanger, even if you just touch it it will start to deform,have done this many time with plastic pens and cell phones

 

[DonFL]

Heat up a metal coat hanger, even if you just touch it it will start to deform,have done this many time with plastic pens and cell phones

Worth a try, definitely. Will give it a shot and let you know. If I can get it to shrink and deform, then maybe enough to push it thru the opening.

I'm not sure exactly how the bowl is designed internally from the opening the tank empties into, but doubting pulling the tank off and trying to reach it from that direction will get me anywhere close...but that was my only other thought.

 

[TomFOhio]

Like TW said it needs to come out that hole. That's where it pushes everything down the drain. Usually it is just lime build
up but if you lost one of those tabs then keep flushing until you can grab ahold of it. Put your shop vac hose on it and try
sucking it out.

 

[DonFL]

Like TW said it needs to come out that hole. That's where it pushes everything down the drain. Usually it is just lime build
up but if you lost one of those tabs then keep flushing until you can grab ahold of it. Put your shop vac hose on it and try
sucking it out.

Its too big to come out the hole with just a shop vac, tried that. Flushing and keeping it floating was helping to give me shots at it, but just couldn't get a good grip.

I'm trying to heat it and shrink it approach now, not with a coat hanger, but with a 300 degree forced air heat tool I use for surface mount desoldering (more my expertise, lol). So far, no shrinkage. I swear those tabs must have a melting point of about 800 F..