Where is the leak in my American Standard Champion 4 toilet tank?

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patel123

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I observed ghost flushes in my American Standard Champion 4 toilet and decided to investigate it.

  • When the tank was full, I could hear water leaking
  • Replaced the flapper, problem remained
  • Let the water fill just above the flapper: no water was leaking, so no issue with the flapper
  • Let the water fill just above the flapper chain connection: no water was leaking, so no issue with the small gasket
  • Let the water fill the tank and water started leaking until the water level was half the tank or just below the fill valve float cup
  • If the fill valve is leaking, then I should see water on the floor below the tank, there wasn't any water on the floor
  • So where is the leak and how do I fix it? Should I replace my fill valve? Thanks in advance.IMG_8292.JPG
 

patel123

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It’s broke at the red mark, obviously.

You’ll need a replacement.
Thanks. It has been like this for at least 2 years. And if I leave the water an inch above the flapper, there is no leak. Are you saying the pressure of full tank of water is causing it to leak?
 

Twowaxhack

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Thanks. It has been like this for at least 2 years. And if I leave the water an inch above the flapper, there is no leak. Are you saying the pressure of full tank of water is causing it to leak?
Yes, I believe that’s why it’s leaking.

There’s also an orange oring on the black retainer that holds that together. The chain connects to it. It can leak there as well.
 

patel123

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Yes, I believe that’s why it’s leaking.

There’s also an orange oring on the black retainer that holds that together. The chain connects to it. It can leak there as well.
Thanks. I filled the tank with the water level go above the orange ring, no water leaked. Thats why I believe the flapper and the ring are good.
 

JG plumbing

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Something is causing your flapper to become buoyant when the tank fills to whatever point it becomes buoyant. I would guess some combination of air where isn't not supposed to be OR the weight of the water is causing the flapper to deform. Then a little water rushes under it and more follows until equilibrium is established.

Likley the second
 

Tim Whistler

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That is a notoriously piece of junk toilet to begin with, there is a class action lawsuit against it already. Add on to that the obviously broken top to the canister and of course you were going to have trouble. Honestly, get rid of that piece of junk and put in a decent Toto are American Standard Cadet Pro toilet.
At least that's my two cents.
 

Twowaxhack

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That is a notoriously piece of junk toilet to begin with, there is a class action lawsuit against it already. Add on to that the obviously broken top to the canister and of course you were going to have trouble. Honestly, get rid of that piece of junk and put in a decent Toto are American Standard Cadet Pro toilet.
At least that's my two cents.
Could you post a link to the active lawsuit regarding this toilet ? I could only find one that was dismissed in 2020.

The flushvalve can be changed to a different type with a flapper, no need to replace the entire toilet over a leaking flushvalve. Just my opinion.
 
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SHEPLMBR

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That is a notoriously piece of junk toilet to begin with, there is a class action lawsuit against it already. Add on to that the obviously broken top to the canister and of course you were going to have trouble. Honestly, get rid of that piece of junk and put in a decent Toto are American Standard Cadet Pro toilet.
At least that's my two cents.
This is an American Standard.
 

Twowaxhack

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This is an American Standard.
Correct, and one of the ones he recommended is basically the same toilet with a different flushvalve. From what I’ve read there was a lawsuit on the champion4, which doesn’t surprise me.

Toto makes some BS toilets too......flush canisters, special ballcocks, etc.
 

SHEPLMBR

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Correct, and one of the ones he recommended is basically the same toilet with a different flushvalve. From what I’ve read there was a lawsuit on the champion4, which doesn’t surprise me.

Toto makes some BS toilets too......flush canisters, special ballcocks, etc.
Well yeah, Toto has changed through the years. I am in wholesale. I have not got any negative feedback on them, but they are constantly changing their models. They have changed their top selling Drake model 3 times in the last 2 years. What was the suit on the Champion 4? I think that model may have been a big box store model. I am not sure.
 

Twowaxhack

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Well yeah, Toto has changed through the years. I am in wholesale. I have not got any negative feedback on them, but they are constantly changing their models. They have changed their top selling Drake model 3 times in the last 2 years. What was the suit on the Champion 4? I think that model may have been a big box store model. I am not sure.
The blue seals will blister. This OP’s flush canister has been around for years. American standard came out with it to replace their other POS white flush tower nearly 20 yrs ago.

They shipped them to customers and I would go replace them. The supply house paid the bill. For a while AS was paying labor. I was hired by the supply house.
 

patel123

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Something is causing your flapper to become buoyant when the tank fills to whatever point it becomes buoyant. I would guess some combination of air where isn't not supposed to be OR the weight of the water is causing the flapper to deform. Then a little water rushes under it and more follows until equilibrium is established.

Likley the second
BINGO. The buoyancy was with the flapper and the chain. I loosened the chain a tiny bit and now the toilet does not leak to half tank. I don't hear the leaking sound anymore. The Korky Strong Arm toilet handle was easy to make adjustments. No issues in the last 2 days. Keeping my fingers crossed. The slow leaking and dripping sound was annoying me like anything.

I have ordered a new flush valve from American Standard anyway since the clam shell is not available separately.
 

JG plumbing

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Could you post a link to the active lawsuit regarding this toilet ? I could only find one that was dismissed in 2020.

The flushvalve can be changed to a different type with a flapper, no need to replace the entire toilet over a leaking flushvalve. Just my opinion.
I think he meant to say was. That's pretty self explanatory.
 
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