Well this happened today

[Moosestang]

This is a new one for me. my dog alerted me that something wasn't right by barking her fool head off. so i went outside and see a cloud of smoke coming from the direction of my well. my well is a couple hundred feet from the house. got to the well and the pressure switch is smoking. Ran back to the house and shut off the breaker. Why the hell didn't the breaker trip? it's a 20a breaker. 220v 1hp submersible pump with 3 wires and a ground. Tested for continuity to ground for the pump wires and there is continuity. Also have continuity on the two hot wires going back to the house so it melted the insulation underground somewhere. I'm assuming the pump shorted out and caused a massive amp draw, but why no breaker trip? Well guy is coming tomorrow. i ain't got time to be digging up the wires going to the house and i'm pretty sure the pump is shot so I ain't pulling that myself. I can't find my old post about water shooting out of the well head when it runs, but it was still doing it up till this afternoon when it caught on fire. I was going to try to pull the pump myself and see where the leak was at, but the more i looked into it, the less i thought i could do it. it looks like the short started on the house side of the pressure switch, which seemed odd if it was caused by the pump. wires were still attached to the pressure switch coming from the pump. the other side of the pressure switch was gone! no fire or burnt wires in the control box either.

 

[havasu]

Breakers need to be exercised annually

 

[Moosestang]

Breakers need to be exercised annually

????? I have shut the breaker off within the past year if that's what you mean. never have i ever heard anyone say that though.

 

[Moosestang]

It takes like 60amps to melt 14awg wire. i suppose it could have been sitting there for hours drawing 30-40amps and eventually melted the wire without tripping the breaker or it's possible the wire rubbed through the insulation on the house side after all these years. When a pump shorts out and the pressure switch closes what happens? Wire heats up as pump keeps drawing more and more power right?

 

[havasu]

Yes, electricians recommend that you exercise all breakers annually, by turning off, then turning on your breakers. I just wanted to rule out that your breaker wasn't frozen.

 

[Moosestang]

Yes, electricians recommend that you exercise all breakers annually, by turning off, then turning on your breakers. I just wanted to rule out that your breaker wasn't frozen.

Yeah, all the breakers were exercised this year when i installed a power inlet box for my generator, but I think i will replace that breaker now. I have no idea how old the breakers are. I took the cover off and no sign of the breaker or wires going to it getting hot. I took the cover off the junction box on the side of the house where the wires run underground to the pump and no sign of heat there either. So if there's a short to ground when the pressure switch closes the contacts that would cause catastrophic damage to the contacts first? contacts being the weakest link I think. It must have made a loud pop or my dog wouldn't have gone crazy. she hates gun shots and thunder. I hope they can just splice the wire close to the well and drop a new pump, pressure switch and control box in and be done. Still looking at a few thousand dollars i'm sure.

 

[BlueSkyHigh]

I purchased a Fluke infra-red thermometer and take the temperature of all of my breakers and outlet boxes periodically every six months. I've found a few hot spots indicating higher than normal connection resistance that I was able to correct with a screw driver.

 

[Moosestang]

I purchased a Fluke infra-red thermometer and take the temperature of all of my breakers and outlet boxes periodically every six months. I've found a few hot spots indicating higher than normal connection resistance that I was able to correct with a screw driver.

were there loose connections at the breaker or just somewhere in the circuit? that's a good idea. i have an infrared thermometer. I can tell you that nut for the top of the pressure switch was hot without using a thermometer.

 

[BlueSkyHigh]

were there lose connections at the breaker or just somewhere in the circuit? that's a good idea. i have an infrared thermometer. I can tell you that nut for the top of the pressure switch was hot without using a thermometer.

They were loose connections in the breaker panel where the wires attach to the breaker itself. I guess the breakers could be actually pulled off the buss bars in the panel and reseated but that's probably overkill. Some of the hot spots were also in the duplex outlets where the wires were simply stripped and inserted rather than being screwed down to the duplex outlet. I do switch the breakers on and off from time to time but not on any periodic basis.

 

[Moosestang]

They were loose connections in the breaker panel where the wires attach to the breaker itself. I guess the breakers could be actually pulled off the buss bars in the panel and reseated but that's probably overkill. Some of the hot spots were also in the duplex outlets where the wires were simply stripped and inserted rather than being screwed down to the duplex outlet. I do switch the breakers on and off from time to time but not on any periodic basis.

thanks. i checked all my breakers when i installed the breaker for the generator. i had to move a breaker and extend the wires. all mine were still tight despite this house being built in 1980. power panel might be newer than that though. Well guy is here and wants to replace the switch first. i think we might see more fire. he thinks the pump might be fine, but i disagree. never heard of windings in a motor having a direct connection to ground and be fine.

 

[Valveman]

It would be rare for a pressure switch to melt from a shorted pump. Most likely the pressure switch was arching from pitted points caused by cycling the pump on and off too much. When the points are pitted they can arc while the pump is running and make as much heat as an arc welder. They can make this kind of heat while drawing the proper amps and without any short. Breaker probably never saw and excess load.

 

[Ferdinand]

Yes, electricians recommend that you exercise all breakers annually, by turning off, then turning on your breakers. I just wanted to rule out that your breaker wasn't frozen.

Phew.
For a moment there I thought you meant I have to go around once a year sticking a fork in every outlet to confirm the breaker trips.

 

[Moosestang]

It would be rare for a pressure switch to melt from a shorted pump. Most likely the pressure switch was arching from pitted points caused by cycling the pump on and off too much. When the points are pitted they can arc while the pump is running and make as much heat as an arc welder. They can make this kind of heat while drawing the proper amps and without any short. Breaker probably never saw and excess load.

it does seem rare as i can't find many or any pictures online like mine. The pump wasn't short cycling. it would run till it hit cutoff pressure then it would take a load of laundry or flushing the toilets/taking a shower to get it to kick on again. What i found odd was the pump would get close to shutoff pressure within a few minutes, then take as long as 10 minutes to finally reach that pressure. I even lowered the pressure to 50psi and it did the same thing. I thought maybe the pump was dying slowly and couldn't full open the check valve to finish filling the pressure tank. This was a jet pump pressure switch made by Solimeta and I have a submersible pump. not sure if it matters.

 

[Moosestang]

Oh, the well guy didn't seem concerned about putting a new pressure switch on it, but he wouldn't say if I'd have to pay for the new switch if it did catch on fire.

 

[Moosestang]

No dice on the new switch, going to have to pull the pump and look for a fried wire or my money is on the pump being fried. $2800 installed for a new franklin electric 1hp pump assuming no drop pipe is needed, probably no new wire in that estimate which i will get regardless. sucky year 2022 has been.

 

[Valveman]

The pump wasn't short cycling. it would run till it hit cutoff pressure then it would take a load of laundry or flushing the toilets/taking a shower to get it to kick on again.

Most people don't realize how many times a day that happens and that the pump is still cycling on and WHILE a shower or something else is running. 30-50 even 300 cycles per day is that many arcs on the pressure switch points. Burned points are usually just one of the first signs of too much on and off. But taking a long time to fill the tank cold be a different problem. Did you make sure the nipple to the pressure switch was clear?

 

[Moosestang]

Most people don't realize how many times a day that happens and that the pump is still cycling on and WHILE a shower or something else is running. 30-50 even 300 cycles per day is that many arcs on the pressure switch points. Burned points are usually just one of the first signs of too much on and off. But taking a long time to fill the tank cold be a different problem. Did you make sure the nipple to the pressure switch was clear?

yeah, there wasn't anything blocking the pressure switch. this pump is probably 20 years old if i had to guess. Hopefully there's still a date code on it that's legible.

 

[Moosestang]

pump is dated 1988! It's seized up. I have an 80 gallon galvanized tank and he was trying to sell me a diamphram or bladder style fiberglass tank for $1300. I'm just going to roll the dice on the galvanized tank since it looks almost brand new. Apparently they made them better in the 80's than the ones sold today. replacing the drop pipe with pvc, not sure how i feel about pvc, but the galvanized portion that was below the water line looks pretty corroded.

 

[Moosestang]

$5k, feel a bit steep for new pump, pvc drop pip, new wire all the switches and gauges. pump wasn't as deep as i thought, but still to heavy for me to pull by hand.

 

[Moosestang]

I tried to take a pic, but my phone sucks, definitely a january 1988 motor according to the date code etched into it.