Water Heater Question

[gmcmurry]

I have a conventional water heat in my vacation home. It has provision for me to turn it on and off remotely. I have not installed a way to remotely turn the water on and off.

I am constantly getting into a mixup, with my house manager, about when I can turn the water heater on.

If my water main is off, shouldn't it be safe if the gas water heater is turned on even though the only water pressure is whatever is residual in the lines?

I worry about this all the time and never had a problem, but now I have had the heater on for two days and the lady never showed up to turn the water on. I will not be there for 3 more days.

Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions.

Greg

 

[Twowaxhack]

If the water heater is still full of water then it’s not going to damage the water heater.

You shouldn’t turn the water heater on IMO.

The water is most likely stinky that’s sitting in that tank depending on how long it’s been sitting there.

You’ll need to purge all that water out at the very least, so no need to heat it up before you get there to the house because you’re going to run 40-50 gallons down the drain.

 

[wpns]

If you _don't_ have an expansion tank (that works), I wouldn't fire up the hot water heater with the cold water shut off.

You are going to have a useful amount of hot water within an hour or two of turning the tank heater on (plus or minus purging the old stale stinky water as Twowaxhack mentioned), so no need to fire it up a week early, you are at the very least wasting energy.

 

[gmcmurry]

Thank You -- I always thought that a water heater would not "over heat" itself. The heater is in the basement so the whole house is an expansion tank I suppose.

I am on the road will not be there for 2 days.

I would normally not turn it on until I got there, but there were going to be housekeeping people and I wanted them to have hot water.

The issue for me was that they were supposed leave the water on but they turned off the water when the left.

I know this all sounds kind of silly, but I always get such good advice here.

In case anyone is interested, this is the device I use to remotely turn my water heater on and off. Disregard the knob on top, it is just stored there. Its a motorized device that turns the WH up and down depending on if power is applied. You can use a timer or, in my case, a remotely controlled ZWave appliance module.

https://www.gaswaterheatertimer.com/
Thanks and Cheers!

 

[Twowaxhack]

Looks like something to break to be honest.

I don’t think I’d install that for a customer

Just personal preference.

 

[wpns]

Thank You -- I always thought that a water heater would not "over heat" itself. The heater is in the basement so the whole house is an expansion tank I suppose.

I am on the road will not be there for 2 days.

I would normally not turn it on until I got there, but there were going to be housekeeping people and I wanted them to have hot water.

The issue for me was that they were supposed leave the water on but they turned off the water when the left.

I know this all sounds kind of silly, but I always get such good advice here.

In case anyone is interested, this is the device I use to remotely turn my water heater on and off. Disregard the knob on top, it is just stored there. Its a motorized device that turns the WH up and down depending on if power is applied. You can use a timer or, in my case, a remotely controlled ZWave appliance module.

https://www.gaswaterheatertimer.com/
Thanks and Cheers!

It (probably) doesn't overheat, but it will overpressurize your house water system and maybe blow off the overtemp/overpressure valve on the hot water heater. Unless you have an expansion tank.

I've used a smart plug on the AC cord for a fully-condensing gas water heater, as it won't run without AC power. That box kinda scares me.

 

[gmcmurry]

Looks like something to break to be honest.

I don’t think I’d install that for a customer

Just personal preference.

I have had it installed and working for 6 years now without a hitch. It is well built out of high quality PVC. Many other good reviews online concerning the quality of the box.
There are not many other options for remotely turning a conventional water heater on or off without modifying something on the thermostat.
All you do on this device is take off the control knob. The unit clamps nicely to the gas control valve. You can set the high and low (usually off) limit of travel. Basically, apply power to the pig tail, it rotates the valve until the desired stop, when you remove the power, it goes the other direction.
Many people use a simple timer on top as sort of a "set back" for daily adjustment. I use a home control system to turn mine on and off. I can do that with a programmed setting or remotely with my phone or computer.

I hope soon to also add a remote operating device to the main ball valve for the house so I can do the same with the water at the house. I just don't have a way right now to see if someone left a faucet open and water would be running someplace. There are some flow sensors available but I need to do a little more research.

Currently, I just have someone go by a few days before I arrive home and turn the water on. Then they can walk around and see if everything else is OK. I normally don't turn the water heater on until a few hours before I arrive.

I just got in a bind and found that the person that was supposed to go by didn't -- then it turned out I had the heater on for 2 days when the water was off. As soon as I discovered this, I shut down the heater.

Thanks again for all the comments.

 

[wpns]

Flume Water | Smart Home Water Monitor | Water Leak Detector is a nice non-intrusive interface to your existing water meter, I put one on my condo in FL, and it appears to work properly. US Solid, an Amazon seller, has a bunch of powered ball valves in various voltages, sizes, and configurations (power to open, and spring return, or power one way to open and the other way to close, etc), I've used their valves, and they seem to work fine. U.S. Solid: Motorized Ball Valves

 

[gmcmurry]

WOW -- I just read about the Flume device.

I am not able to put one on my vacation home, but I might just put one on my primary residence. I think it is really cool.

I chose the Bulldog for couple of reasons.

1. It fits an existing ball valve. I don't have to cut/resolder the pipes.
2. You can still easily operate the valve manually.
3. It has a local button that will operate the valve electrically. It does need available AC Power
4. There is a Z-Wave version that will talk to my existing home automation. There is a WiFi version also.

I am thinking I have to assume there is some leakage in my house somewhere. If I look at the water pressure on the house (after the main valve cutoff) when I turn the water off, the pressure will stay the same. However, I am assuming that after some number of hours, the pressure may drain down. Maybe through the RO system or something. Then I can see a pressure loss. Then I might be able to tell.

I have a pressure gauge there now. Someone suggested I put one of my security cameras on the gauge. That is not a bad idea and also pretty simple.

unfortunately, I have my gauge in front of the main valve. Maybe I have to change that.

I am really interested in the engineering behind the Flume. I really need to buy one.

Greg

 

[Twowaxhack]

I’ve thought about wiring a ballvalve into my security system so when it’s armed in away mode the water is turned off. When it’s disarmed the valve would turn back on.

 

[gmcmurry]

I have done just that with my current demand system that has a pump. They can give you a signal from your alarm that can be used to trigger a relay that turns your outlet on and off (if you have a Tankless). It is terrific.

When I come home and turn off the alarm, I hear my tankless come one for a few minutes.

 

[wpns]

I am thinking I have to assume there is some leakage in my house somewhere.

Unless it's continuous, it could be (as you say) an RO system or an icemaker, or a dripping faucet. But be paranoid and check under your sinks, etc.

 

[wpns]

I am really interested in the engineering behind the Flume.

It's a pretty neat device, watches the magnetic field from your meter coupling and infers water use from there. Was simple to install. Can't say I think much of their AI/ML analysis of what water use categories it picks (it assigned my showers to 'outdoor' use, but since I'm in a condo, I have no outdoor water use), but that's easy to ignore.

 

[cdestuck]

If your water shut off is a ball valve, here’s a controller.

 

[Riickk]

I remember investigating a gizmo just like yours, that would daily turn WH temperature up & down using a built-in timer.
Doubt you'd have a problem given you use it only a few time each year, but in daily use, since the temperature valves are not designed to be turned that often, lots of temp valve failures were reported.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I don’t see the real benefit of a device that turns a tank type water heater thermostat up and down.

The pilot is still burning…..you could always just turn the thermostat to vacation setting before you leave and back up to temp when you get home. If you’re trying to save money, there are better ways to do it…….

It only takes a few minutes to heat enough hot water to take a shower so if I need to wait a few minutes once I arrive, no problem.

If the water has been sitting on the tank for over two weeks then I want to purge that water heater anyway.
I’d put my money towards a tankless instead of this device. Just my opinion.