Trouble removing garbage disposal ring and flange

Discussion in 'Toilets and Sinks' started by Zanne, Jun 24, 2014.

  1. Jun 24, 2014 #1

    Zanne

    Zanne

    Zanne

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    As I mentioned in another thread, I'm trying to replace my old Kenmore garbage disposal with a new model since the old one won't work.

    I had trouble getting the rusted metal ring to move to remove the old unit but I finally got that stubborn sob to turn and the disposal is off. So now I'm trying to remove the rusted ring and the flange. I watched a couple videos and they said to remove the snap ring so that the assembly would just come apart. But there is no snap ring. No rubber there. But ole rusty doesn't want to come off.

    This is what it looks like from the underside:
    [​IMG]

    And the side underneath the sink:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And inside the sink when I lift it up:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Sorry for the last two shots, it was an awkward angle. I can't seem to find any seams or spots where this comes apart. My vision is not the greatest.

    Any suggestions on how to get this thing off without damaging the sink?

    Also, how much plumber's putty should I use when I put in the new flange?
     
  2. Jun 24, 2014 #2

    johnjh2o

    johnjh2o

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    There is a snap ring but to see it you have to push the lower ring up towards the sink.
     
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  3. Jun 24, 2014 #3

    Zanne

    Zanne

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    Thanks. I'll go give that a try. That ring really doesn't want to budge much though. I had a hell of a time getting it to turn.

    Update: It worked! I had to tap that rusty mofo with a hammer while I held the flange in place to get it up. There was a rusty metal ring underneath. So much rust fell when I was pushing the lower ring up.

    Thank you very much! Now I can clean things up and see about getting it installed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2014
  4. Jun 25, 2014 #4

    Zanne

    Zanne

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    ARG! I screwed up on the installation because of the lousy snap ring. I was having a very hard time trying to get it to go on to the flange and I went to pry it apart far enough to get it to fit around and pulled too hard and bent it. It wouldn't snap back. I tried to bend it back into place but it won't go back to snapping. When I try to screw the lower ring on, it pops the snap ring off.
     
  5. Jun 25, 2014 #5

    journeyman

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    I usually put the new disposal in the box and set it in sink on top of new flange to hold it so it does not push up then put my snap ring in place. Sometimes it pays to out smart the flange lol
     
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  6. Jun 25, 2014 #6

    Zanne

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    Yeah. That's exactly what I did (putting the garbage disposal unit on top of the flange), but I couldn't get the other parts to stay up and out of the way while I was trying to get the snap ring on and I couldn't get in to the cabinet as far I wanted at the right angle because of a strip of wood where the doors meet when they close. The instructions Insinkerator described on how to install it seemed to have nothing to do with the part I was trying to put on and they kept mentioning some sort of hose clamp that did not come in the box. I did actually tape the other parts up to the bottom of the sink temporarily but they were still too much in the way.

    I contacted Insinkerator and they told me I needed part # 05166 and gave me the phone number for the parts distributor. The ring is 27 cents but shipping is $10.95... I'm half tempted to see if I can find the old rusty snap ring, clean it up, coat it in clear fingernail polish or something, and use it instead. Or maybe I can find out if Home Depot might have any spare rings somewhere... Because that much shipping is just ridiculous.

    Another online store had the part for 22 cents but shipping was $15.

    I wish I knew how to repair the one I bent.

    I'm annoyed at myself for screwing this up, but the videos made it look so easy.

    Update: I called their help line and explained that I followed the instructions on their printout. Specifically step 13:
    Anyway, they are sending me the part for free. It will just take about a week.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
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  7. Jun 27, 2014 #7

    journeyman

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    Do you know why a cabinet is raised off the floor and it is hard to get under cabinet? Because the carpenter caught the plumber with his wife. Payback is a *****
     
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  8. Jun 27, 2014 #8

    Zanne

    Zanne

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    ROTFL!!

    I have things worked out that I'm going to clean the plumber's putty off. hold the flange down while my skinny friend puts the snap ring on, then I'm going to have him push it up while I put new plumber's putty on and I'll press it back down. That way I won't have to worry about the flange getting moved after the putty is on and then making it loose-- which is what happened already. The weight of the compact model was not sufficient to hold it down firmly. I had to hold it down to keep the flange in place while my friend tried to put the bent ring in place.

    Now I just count down the days til the part arrives.
     
  9. Jul 14, 2014 #9

    Zanne

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    The part was shipped on June 27th but did not arrive until July 11 because someone at the Lake Charles Fedex place doesn't know how to use google maps. They called me on Monday morning before 7am to ask if my address was valid and to ask for directions. I was extremely groggy and accidentally said to go north instead of south. When I tried to ask for the tracking number of the package, the woman hung up on me. I called back later in the day but the woman who answered had no idea what I was talking about and wasn't willing to check the logs to see who had called my number at that time (I know a good business is supposed to keep logs of that with notes). I was told they would call me back. They lied. I figured it had been a package for my a-hole neighbor since Insinkerator's people told me they were shipping via USPS. I waited until Thursday to call Insinkerator to ask why I didn't have the part. They said they sent via FedEx and gave me the tracking number.

    So then I looked it up and saw that the part had been in Lake Charles since July 2 and there were "exceptions" where they claimed they could not deliver due to bad weather, invalid address, and customer not available. They claimed there were over 5 delivery attempts. So I called Fedex to ask WTF the problem was because I had been home every time of the supposed delivery. The lady on the phone told me that there had been weather problems and that "today" was the first day they were actually attempting delivery. I called BS and said the notes said they had been trying to deliver. I was then told some other excuse-- I forget exactly what. She said I would have my package by 6pm and to call if I didn't have it by then. I left detailed instructions on how to find my house. 6:20pm rolled around and I still did not have my package. I called and was told that they could not reach the driver and that when they did, they would call me back. 8:20pm rolled around so I called back (previously on one of the calls they had put me on hold and I'd gotten disconnected). They were giving me the run around and said something about how the driver had too many packages to deliver and therefore he hadn't gotten around to mine yet and had to return to the "base". I called BS because he'd had the package for over a week. I then said the magic words: "I'm going to file a formal complaint". They said they would make sure I got my package the next day. Within a few minutes the driver called me and apologized. He told me he would bring the package by between noon and 1pm. I personally gave him instructions on how to find the house just in case he hadn't been given them. I also said that if need be I would drive in to town and meet him somewhere if he could not find the place because I needed the package.

    2pm rolls around and I'd been sitting there for 2 hours needing to pee but afraid I would miss the driver if he showed up. I finally had to go and then I called FedEx and got put in to phone transfer hell from one division to another until I was speaking with someone from the Lake Charles office. They told me that they don't even send packages out on Mondays so I mentioned that I was not at all pleased that they called me before 7am on a Monday and woke me up. I am not a morning person. They then told me that the driver wasn't supposed to promise any specific time and that he wasn't supposed to arrange meetings other places. They then said something about an investigation that would take 48 hours and that I would have to wait until Saturday-- at which point I interrupted and let them know it was absolutely unacceptable to wait one more day and that I was livid about the situation. They said they couldn't reach the driver but would text him some info. I wasn't going to be home from 3:30 to 4:30 since I had to go into town.

    Anyway, I had to leave and while I was sitting in the Pizza Hut parking lot waiting for my housemate to get out so I could take him home, the Fedex truck pulled up and a haggard looking guy sweating bullets walked up. He said "I'm the FedEx guy". He'd called and my brother told him where to find me. He apologized profusely and I looked at the now filthy package and saw the map they had stuck on it for him.. It wasn't even the right Parish (county) much less city. I don't know where they pulled that map from but it didn't even remotely follow my instructions. It showed my address in the middle of some intersection in Evangeline Parish. WTF. I felt bad for the driver, but FedEx really needs to get better maps. My address shows up fine on google maps.

    Anyway, I got home, cleared some space, checked that the flange was still in place and didn't want to budge, held the flange down while my skinny friend (the one from Pizza Hut) popped the snap ring on.

    Then I started messing around with the circuit breaker to figure out which one powered the garbage disposal. It's the one that provides power for my room, my mother's computer, and the refrigerator. I used a voltage detector to check to make sure it was dead. Then I started removing the screws to the cover plate.

    Unfortunately one of the screws was stripped and would not come out with any screwdrivers I used. The electric one just kept slipping out. I had to take a break because it was hot in the house and I was sweating like crazy. I was also quite annoyed so I waited until I calmed down a few hours later (and the temperature was lower). I had turned the power back on while I rested and then flipped it back off before taking another crack at it. I removed the screws for the plastic casing and pulled it out of the way and removed all of the screws that I could before trying the stuck one again. No luck. I got a little irritated and bashed it with heavy wrench (I couldn't find my hammer). It bent the plate so that I was able to get the flat heads under it and pry it up. Then I grabbed it and ripped it off. I then removed the wires and set the old disposal under the sink with a soft mat on top so I could rest the new disposal on top. I removed the plate and started to do the wiring when I realized I was missing a part.

    [​IMG]

    Far left "cable connector". I thought I would have one in my electrical toolbox, but I was wrong. I didn't even know what size one I needed or the exact name because my google search wasn't exactly fruitful. I see it seems to also be called a relief clamp. Someone on amazon said they got a 1/2" one for that model. Unfortunately by the time I found that info, the hardware stores were closed (the only hardware stores left in town close at 5pm weekdays, noon Saturdays, and don't open on Sundays). So I have to wait until tomorrow (later today) to go searching for it. I tried a few other stores, but nobody had the part.

    Hopefully I'll get the right size one (I might get an extra in a different size just in case) and get this done and hooked up.

    Then comes the plumbing..
    Can I use a regular T fitting or do I need a sanitary tee if I want to connect it to the sink drain pipe just before it goes in to the trap?
    And how do I judge if it is at the 1/4" per foot slope?
    Do they make sanitary tees that can be attached without glue (with those little twist-on plastic thingies-- brain is not working right now).

    I'm also trying to figure out to what I should ground the ground wire. The copper is all green from floating around under the sink and getting wet.

    I'm also going to do a leak test on the flange before I actually attach the disposal to make sure that it is properly sealed. I should do that soon...
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2014
  10. Jul 15, 2014 #10

    Zanne

    Zanne

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    Leak test was not satisfactory so I redid the putty and turned the flange so it had the words straight instead of crooked. I confess that I sort of wanted to re-do the putty since that was the most fun part of the project.

    I've mentioned in a few threads that I needed help with some of the parts due to my weak hands and lack of flexibility. The springy hose ring was put on by my housemate and he also got the disposal attached to the flange for me. I spent 4 hours working on it today so I was too sore and exhausted to keep trying on my own. I might have gotten it eventually, but I decided to accept defeat and go the easy route. At least that part was not easy for him though. Initially he said it was impossible. Also, that damn hose ring has a sharp end. ouch.

    I'm disappointed in myself for not being able to do certain parts by myself and I need to work on my hand strength, but in the meantime, I'm glad that its almost done. Next part is the plumbing.

    A flashback to the old plumbing:
    [​IMG]

    There is currently no way to get it to be vented properly and AAVs are not allowed in my state (otherwise I would go for one).

    So my temporary solution: (I will cut the long pipe down to fit)
    [​IMG]

    And attach something like this assembly:
    [​IMG]

    This is actually the second most fun part because its a puzzle.

    Anyway, other than being S-trapped, does that rig look ok? (I'm missing one piece to join to the pipe that goes through the floor-- I need something that is straight and threaded on both ends (or I need to get a bend that is threaded on both ends).

    Any thoughts/suggestions?

    Also, should I put the wire back behind the plumbing or let it be in front? I had a hell of a time pulling the old unit out far enough because the wires were behind stuff, but I wonder if the wire will get in the way...
     
  11. Jul 16, 2014 #11

    phishfood

    phishfood

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    They sell tubular S trap kits in home improvement stores around here, even though installing them is against code. That might be an option.

    I always try to keep the wiring as out of the way as possible.
     
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  12. Jul 16, 2014 #12

    Zanne

    Zanne

    Zanne

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    Thanks. I also went ahead and purchased a 1 1/2" adapter to go from the compression fittings to PVC for when I get around to doing it right. I'm going to attach it to a sanitary tee and then get a fitting to go upward at an angle (maybe a 1/8 bend or 45 depending on how much space I end up with) and then out of the exterior wall to meet up with the existing exterior vent pipe.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Jul 16, 2014 #13

    Zanne

    Zanne

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    Well, I finally got it all hooked up. Other than the S-trap, does this look OK?

    [​IMG]

    That last little bend just before the elbow does actually slope downward, but you can't tell from this picture.

    I ran the water and it hasn't leaked so far.. *knock on wood*
     
  14. Aug 4, 2014 #14

    Zanne

    Zanne

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    So far so good. I'm going to continue to knock on wood and hope it stays good.
    I am trying to plan ahead to getting rid of the S-trap so I'm wondering something:

    Since my current sink drain pipe is 1.5" and I think the pipe it hooks to is 3", would I be able to use something like this?
    Spears P502 Series PVC DWV Pipe Fitting, 1/8 Bend, Reducing Combination Wye, 3" x 3" x 1-1/2" Hub
    [​IMG]

    or a 1.5" to 2" if it turns out to be 2" (I will have to go check the size).

    So, I would have the compression to PVC converter then go to a 1/2" sanitary tee with the upper part hooking to say a 1/8 bend up top for the vent (which would go out through the wall) and under the house I would have the aforementioned wye to hook it to the drain pipe that has a cleanout.

    So, what do you guys think? Would that fitting be ok?

    Edit: here is something I slapped together in paint-- just pasting in some fittings. The bottom ones came out a bit too light...
    [​IMG]

    If it turns out that the drain it goes to is 2" then I would just substitute 2" for 3".
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014

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