Toilet vent?

[BD1]

I figured rather than write an introduction with my questions I'd kill 2 birds with 1 stone and introduce myself here and post my question here.

I'm originally from Illinois, but my family and I live in the Kansas City suburbs (Overland Park). I'm glad I found this page as I am putting in 2 bathrooms in our basement, we recently bought our 'forever' home in my wife's most desired neighborhood...but the big old house needs some love. We bought it from the original owners and its basically a time warp to 1983. Don't get me wrong, they maintained it ok...but it needs updates and deferred maintenance. All the renovations and updates have drained me more than I'd like to this point, so I'm finishing the basement myself which is what brings me here. Side note - we got a bid to finish the basement and it was 90k, is this outrageous or normal? 2500sq ft basement and finishing 2000sq ft. Nothing fancy or over the top, basic trim, carpet, etc. I laughed when I first saw the number...nonetheless DIY it is.

I am in the process of finishing the basement now, I am fairly handy and feel comfortable tackling most home DIY jobs. I fully renovated a stilted beach house we bought as an investment property 2 summers ago, and the extent of my plumbing in that was only relocating the electric water heater....plumbing isn't something I have a ton of experience with aside from fixing the occasional leak or replacing a toilet, faucet, disposal, etc. I'm willing, able, and ready to learn more though.

My plumbing plans for the basement are 1 half bath and 1 full bath. The half bath is already "roughed in", and I'll have questions for knocking out concrete, the tie in main drain process, etc on the full bath but I'll do a lot of research first.

The half bath is what I'm here for now. I know the rough in for the toilet, and the rough in for the sink. I think the sink has a vent going above it...correct me if I'm wrong?

But what is the other line coming out of the concrete, that then shoots over and ties into the (what I believe) vent for the sink? Is this a vent for the toilet?

If this is the vent for the toilet, is it going to hurt if I cut the abs pipe out from a couple inches above the floor and a couple inches from the tie in - and then re-attach after I frame the wall so that I don't have to try and frame around the existing pipe? I can then just cut what I need out of the studs and re-connect the abs vent piping with a coupler? Hopefully it makes sense what I'm wanting to do.

Thanks in advance

 

[BD1]

 

[BD1]

And here’s the line going up. I forgot to mention at some point they painted the pipes... they’re actually all black ABS

 

[MicEd69]

From your pictures, your assumption of that being the vent for the toilet appears correct. The sewer line should run directly under that vertical line. And there would be no problem cutting that line to construct you wall, and then reinstalling the line through the studs. But note that that line is a 2" line with an OD of 2 3/8". So, you will need to use 2x6 studs for that wall and center it over that vent line. I assume that the builder knew this, and that the toilet rough-in will be at least 12" from the finished wall surface. The vent line needs to slope 1/4" per foot towards where it comes out of the concrete.

But since you have to use 2x6 studs, why not leave the piping in place. Install the bottom plate in pieces or cut a U in it where the vent line comes out of the concrete. Then in the areas of where the existing horizontal line is located, use a pair of 2x4 studs, (one from each side of the wall), with a U cutout at the appropriate places and depth. Screw them together where they overlap. It would seem like that approach would be much easier to install. Your pipe would be at least 1 1/2" from your stud surface, so you would not, by code anyway, require stud nail plates to protect the pipe.

Just another option to consider.

 

[BD1]

Thanks MicEd, honestly didn't even take into account that wall would need to be framed with 2x6 studs...and great idea on the 2x4s screwed to each other with a matching U cutout on each side of the pipe.

I will probably use nail stud plates just to be on the safe side, I'll order them in bulk so it won't hurt to slap them on.

the center of the toilet drain is about 12.5" from the edge of where the stud will be, which is perfect once the drywall goes on so I'm clear there.

Last question, in your or anyone else's opinion was this area in the bottom of this photo intended to be a shower drain? And is that vent pipe I pointed out earlier for the shower as well as the toilet?

 

[MicEd69]

That very well could be a shower connection. I had my builder rough in a full bathroom in my basement; toilet, sink, and shower. He put the shower stub up with the styrofoam sleeve just like the toilet. But the person installing this rough in may have covered the shower connection with a thin layer of concrete. It wouldn't be too hard to break out that concrete and see what's under it. If there is a shower connection, maybe you could make this your full bath, but I don't know your layout and if that would make sense.

 

[Twowaxhack]

The concrete patch is typical of a tub or shower box out.

Dig that out and you’ll find a 2” pipe stubbed into the hole.

 

[Twowaxhack]

You could also build a double stud wall without any cut outs and just space between for all the piping.

This way there are no holes to drill and plenty of room to run all you pipe now and in the future. It does waste a little space but that may not matter.

 

[MicEd69]

You could also build a double stud wall without any cut outs and just space between for all the piping.

This way there are no holes to drill and plenty of room to run all you pipe now and in the future. It does waste a little space but that may not matter.

Besides losing space, the other issue with that approach is the one wall would have to be 2x2 "studs" or 2x4 studs set flat as the rough in for the toilet is already set. Or you could use an offset closet flange and use 2x3 studs for the inside wall, but with the lack of quality of today's lumber, I wouldn't put up a 2x3 wall.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Besides losing space, the other issue with that approach is the one wall would have to be 2x2 "studs" or 2x4 studs set flat as the rough in for the toilet is already set. Or you could use an offset closet flange and use 2x3 studs for the inside wall, but with the lack of quality of today's lumber, I wouldn't put up a 2x3 wall.

Yeah you’re alright, I’d probably try to revent above my stud wall so I didn’t have to cut notches for the vent horizontally. I paid $7.00 each last week for pre cut lodgepole studs, pricy to me.

Or use 2x6 and drill holes then reinstall the horizontal revent.

When we built the double stud wall for my house we did notch around the vertical pipes on one side but there were no revents. This left me a nice space to install my copper and lavatory arms without drilling or notching. We also didn’t have a toilet rough to worry about, the toilets have therir own room

 

[MicEd69]

Yeah, relocating the vent to above the top plate would also be nice fix, but then you'd have to go through a floor joist with a 2" pipe. Doable, but the other approaches mentioned I think are better.

BD1's original approach was to cut out the horizontal vent pipe and cut holes in the studs and reinstall the pipe. But to do that, the wall would have to be assembled on the floor and set in place, which is very often done. But that would require good measurements for the proper slope of the line. Cutting U notches in 2x4s allows all the existing piping to remain as is and eliminates any measuring for the location of the U notches. Just hold the stud up next to the pipe and mark the centerline.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Depends which way the joists run, but from it pics it looks like they’re running parallel to the revent

 

[MicEd69]

Depends which way the joists run, but from it pics it looks like they’re running parallel to the revent

Yes, it does, but look at the second picture and the vent turns vertical one joist over from where the wall will be.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Yes, it does, but look at the second picture and the vent turns vertical one joist over from where the wall will be.

Yep, no matter how you build the wall that will need to be dealt with.

 

[MicEd69]

Yep, no matter how you build the wall that will need to be dealt with.

Probably just lower the bathroom ceiling 3".

 

[BD1]

I originally planned to make this just a half bath, and put another full bath attached off of the bedroom I’m making in the basement...leaving this half bath (in the middle of the basement) accessible for all, and the full bath more private. My family is all from Illinois so I wanted to provide a bedroom with a bathroom my parents could use and they wouldn’t have to worry about grandkids bothering them. I can still do that down the road, but since I’m already plumbed here I might as well.

I think I’m going to go 2x6 and then do the 2x4s with matching U’s. I’ll also likely just “shim” the entire ceiling down, not sure what else do to avoid that vent below the joist. Unless I just do a small soffit with a can light in it above the vanity directly below.

I greatly appreciate both of your input, and I’ll report back with what I’ve finished, hopefully it’s a working bathroom by that point

 

[Twowaxhack]

That low horizontal vent can be above the wall in the floor joist cavity. This will get it out of the way of your wall studs.

It doesn’t have to run horizontal so low.

Just replicate what you see now above your stud wall in the floor joist cavity.

Get into the floor joist space and run the pipe toward the staircase until you get over the wall supporting the stairs. Then drill through the center of the one floor joist and turn up for the vent.

Drilling through the floor joist in the center where it’s supported by the wall wouldn’t cause a problem.

This will allow a regular 2x4 stud wall and get the pipe out of the way so your ceiling wouldn’t need to be furred down.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Drill through the floor joist in the center above this stud wall. This will keep it strong as the hole in the joist will be sitting on the top plate. Be sure to drill in the center.

 

[Twowaxhack]

The red pipe would be removed and the yellow pipes would extend into the floor joist cavity above. Then run the horizontal red pipe above the wall.

 

[MicEd69]

I originally planned to make this just a half bath, and put another full bath attached off of the bedroom I’m making in the basement...leaving this half bath (in the middle of the basement) accessible for all, and the full bath more private. My family is all from Illinois so I wanted to provide a bedroom with a bathroom my parents could use and they wouldn’t have to worry about grandkids bothering them. I can still do that down the road, but since I’m already plumbed here I might as well.

I think I’m going to go 2x6 and then do the 2x4s with matching U’s. I’ll also likely just “shim” the entire ceiling down, not sure what else do to avoid that vent below the joist. Unless I just do a small soffit with a can light in it above the vanity directly below.

I greatly appreciate both of your input, and I’ll report back with what I’ve finished, hopefully it’s a working bathroom by that point

I like the idea of the small soffit over the vanity, but I'd suggest those flat round LED lights that just slip into holes in the ceiling that are held in place with spring clips. Super easy to install and provide great light. Some even have adjustable color temperatures; soft white, daylight, cool white, etc.