Toilet Drain issue

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mdk0420

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I am trying to fix some plumbing issues and I am stumbling onto a problem. My downstairs toilet has no good way of getting a vent pipe vertically. The wall behind the toilet and one side is a solid log build. The other side has a lot of things in the way and I would rather not try to destroy the wall and run it up into the ceiling destroying that as well. The shower will be within a few feet of the vent as well as the shower. The toilet is about 9' away which from what I understand it needs to be within 6' and theres not enough height to use a 45 angle to get it closer. I attached a rough idea of what I wanted to do. The drainage in this bathroom is horrid because of not having any of this connected to a vent.

Would I be allowed to tie the sink into the vent like this as well? I figure a 1 1/2" diameter pipe cant possible water log a 2" vent pipe but I'm unsure with the codes regarding this. I've seen some setups where each drain is connected to the same main vent, and others that route the vent to get above the highest water point. My search was confusing with seeing multiple setups regarding this. I can see doing it in other ways but it just seems like a lot of wasted piping and $$$ but I want to get this part as close to codes as possible before closing up the shower wall where I would have access to get this vent pipe in.

As for the toilet I just have no idea how to handle it and would like suggestions. I always thought it was 10' from the trap but when I looked into it I kept seeing 6' for a toilet. I'm sure the experts here can give me a clear answer. Finding that really put a hamper on this vent idea.

Thanks for any insight!
 

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Depending on where you are located in Pennsylvania, a quick check seems to indicate you are under the IPC. As such, that 6' toilet vent is not a requirement, unless your local AHJ added it to the IPC.

It's hard to tell from your sketch, but I think you show that there is a vertical vent from the trap arm of the shower. You can drain your sink into the vertical vent if your sink is within 6' of the vent line if you are using 1 1/2" drain line and slope the drain 1/4" per foot. The fitting should be reducing Sanitary tee and the line below that tee should be 2". I think the drain from the shower to the branch the toilet is discharging should either be 3" or if 2", it should enter the branch at a 45-degree angle from above. The toilet will be wet vented through the 2", or the 3" line, depending on what approach you take.

I'd like to see others comment on the 3" or 2" line as I'm in a hurry to leave for dinner, but I think I'm right about that either by code or best practice.
 
Hmmm... just had a thought. Would this
MicEd69 said:
Depending on where you are located in Pennsylvania, a quick check seems to indicate you are under the IPC. As such, that 6' toilet vent is not a requirement, unless your local AHJ added it to the IPC.

It's hard to tell from your sketch, but I think you show that there is a vertical vent from the trap arm of the shower. You can drain your sink into the vertical vent if your sink is within 6' of the vent line if you are using 1 1/2" drain line and slope the drain 1/4" per foot. The fitting should be reducing Sanitary tee and the line below that tee should be 2". I think the drain from the shower to the branch the toilet is discharging should either be 3" or if 2", it should enter the branch at a 45-degree angle from above. The toilet will be wet vented through the 2", or the 3" line, depending on what approach you take.

I'd like to see others comment on the 3" or 2" line as I'm in a hurry to leave for dinner, but I think I'm right about that either by code or best practice.
Click to expand...
I'll double check with my area. It is in Lebanon County. They tend to be somewhat lenient with codes. I might even just call them for that particular question.

The sink is only a 5' run while the shower would be about 2'. I will make sure the shower has a Y with a 45 instead of a T. The whole vent stack was planned to be 2" going pretty much straight into the roof. If required I could switch my plans to a 3" stack.

The way I see it, I can't break something that's already broken lol. I would prefer this be to code of course. But I've also seen some inspectors be lenient on plumbing setups so long as they aren't crazy. I can't make the impossible possible, and destroying walls and ceilings seems pretty drastic to get a vent in. Lots of time, money and effort when I could just stick this pipe in, run a few T's, Y's, and a roof cap and then good to go.
 
mdk0420 said:
I will make sure the shower has a Y with a 45 instead of a T.
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Again, I can't tell from your sketch, but if you are talking about a horizontal drain going to a vertical drain line, you need a Sanitary tee and NOT a wye with a 45.

1697858828799.png

And the 2" vent to the roof is just fine. My concern about a 3" line is from the Sanitary tee for the shower to the branch tie-in. I believe if that is tied in in the horizontal, it needs to be increased one size up. But if it is tied in as a wet vent at a 45-degree angle from above to the branch line, then it can be a 2" line. But again, I would like others to comment on that interpretation.
 
2” minimum size wet vent. Shower drain minimum size 2”

Wyes or combination wye & 1/8” bend (aka combo aka combination ) for horizontal to horizontal

Sanitary tees for horizontal to vertical. A fixture fitting is also acceptable, it looks like a combo but the horizontal sweep isn’t as drastic as a combo that would cut the vent off.
 
MicEd69 said:
Again, I can't tell from your sketch, but if you are talking about a horizontal drain going to a vertical drain line, you need a Sanitary tee and NOT a wye with a 45.

View attachment 42679

And the 2" vent to the roof is just fine. My concern about a 3" line is from the Sanitary tee for the shower to the branch tie-in. I believe if that is tied in in the horizontal, it needs to be increased one size up. But if it is tied in as a wet vent at a 45-degree angle from above to the branch line, then it can be a 2" line. But again, I would like others to comment on that interpretation.
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The sink and shower will go horizontal until they meet the vertical vent pipe. So I should definitely use a sanitary tee. Does that mean I shouldn't use a Y at the bottom when it goes from vertical to horizontal then?
 
No, you SHOULD use a wye and 45 or a combo when going vertical to horizontal. If your vertical is meeting the horizontal directly from above, you will be just fine.

My concern that I mentioned above was the connection of that 2" line to the 3" line if it was not meeting the 3" directly from above. If it turned horizontal before connecting to the 3", then the orientation of the wye would be best if the branch was rolled up at a 45-degree angle so that the wet vent would not be flat.
 
It’s ok for a wet vent to be at regular pitch(flat) . It’s a dry vent that you don’t want to be flat. If it has to be flat then I suggest a cleanout in the vertical portion for maintenance and it may get failed unless it’s part of a foot vent.

It’s too early for this !
 
Twowaxhack said:
It’s ok for a wet vent to be at regular pitch(flat) . It’s a dry vent that you don’t want to be flat. If it has to be flat then I suggest a cleanout in the vertical portion for maintenance and it may get failed unless it’s part of a foot vent.

It’s too early for this !
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So, are you saying that while a wet vent can be "flat" per code, "if it HAS to be flat then I suggest a cleanout in the vertical portion for maintenance"?

So, is the best practice to have the wet vent entering the branch line at a 45-degree angle?
 
MicEd69 said:
So, are you saying that while a wet vent can be "flat" per code, "if it HAS to be flat then I suggest a cleanout in the vertical portion for maintenance"?

So, is the best practice to have the wet vent entering the branch line at a 45-degree angle?
Click to expand...

Wet vents can be flat because it’s washed. No cleanout necessary because you can use the fixture as a cleanout.

If it’s not washed (dry) then the needs to be on a 45 or more to considered vertical. It would still be good to have cleanout even if not required. If it’s revented then there’s no way to clean the vent if it does stop up, period.

Drains on 45 or better that’s considered vertical are less prone to stoppages. So yes. I’d say it’s best practice.

I’m sure there may be codes that disagree or rule what I’ve laid out as illegal. It flips and flips through history. But what I’ve said is sound plumbing practice legal or not. It’s really just opinions when it comes down to these things.
 
The photo I have would be as if you were looking at it from the side. Sorry I think I just noticed where some confusion is coming from whether or not these are vertical or horizontal lines lol.

So I would use a sanitary tee going from the sink/shower (horizontal lines) to the vertical wet vent. Then coming down to the horizontal main 3" line that also servers the toilet would end with a 1/8 bend and a Y to make the smooth transition for flow.

Still waiting for tomorrow to call codes and see if there is any issue with the toilet being 9' away from that wet vent. Hopefully they understand my predicament lol. Would be a costly repair if that 9' doesn't work.

Another thing that I thought of which I'm not sure if it would count... I will attach the idea to this post. What if I just made the initial vent closer? I know there are some restrictions for doing horizontal venting below the traps but I'm not sure if its not allowed at all, or if there is limited distance you can go. I also don't know if that limited distance would count with the initial run of the pipe after the trap. Check the photo for what I'm thinking. The angles are a little off. The additional horizontal vent pipe wouldn't be angled downwards lol. And the 6' section and 3' section look the same in the picture but I marked the distance lol.
 

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Nope. Generally, vents can’t go horizontal until above the flood rim. The exception is a combo waste/vent (as TwoHack pointed out in another post) but this ain’t that.

If you are in IPC, you are okay with 9’. Toilets don’t need the same vent requirements that other fixtures have because of the self siphon feature and the slow fill.
 
Thank you! This information is very helpful. I think I understand the design I need to go with. Sounds like this will likely not be an issue. Codes did not call me back today but doing a bit of research it does seem like PA uses the IPC.
 
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