Spring water pump

[Nuke]

I’m building my retirement cabin on property that has used a spring for water for over 80 years.
I plan on using a catch basin and gravity feed down the holler to the pump on the valley floor.
My cabin is about a 450’ run up about a 120-130’ steep incline.
We’ll have at least 2 shower heads in the master bath if not more, and 1 upstairs, and an additional 1/2 bath. Oh, there’ll be another 3/4 bath down in the shop on the valley floor.
i’ve tried all the charts and aids but would just really appreciate some sort of simple home spun wisdom.
There seems to always be some knowledgeable sages on these forums, that’s why I use them.
What size lines should I use for the feed and supply up to the house?
I was thinking 2” an 11/4”, but I saw most pumps were 11/4“ supply and 1” pressure???
Which pumps should I be looking at and considering?
I plan on burying the lines about a foot in this neck of the woods.

Thanks in Advance
and I promise I’ll contribute with pix on my project.

Nuke
38 year veteran

 

[MicEd69]

The maximum flow rate a normal house uses is around 10-12 GPM, so a 1" HDPE buried line would be more than adequate. When you say "a 120'-130' steep incline", is that the elevation difference? If it is, and if you want to use the pump in the valley to provide your house pressure of say 50 psi, you will need a pump capable of around 250 feet of head. I would highly recommend using a Cycle Stop Valve for your system. Valveman on this site will be able to better assist you with the best proper system.

 

[Valveman]

To lift 130' and then have 50 PSI at the top 250' of head would be correct as MicEd says. That is the same as 108 PSI. Rounding up you need to run a 110/130 pressure switch at the bottom of the valley. I would use a 10GB15 pump as seen on page 10 of this link.

https://www.lockewell.com/pdf/goulds/B5-33GB.pdf
Put a good 1" brass spring loaded check valve on the suction side of the pump.

On the discharge of the pump you can use a PK1ALT pump control kit with a heavy duty pressure switch set for 110/130. You can see it here.
PK1A-LT Constant Pressure Pump Control Kit (Less Tank) – Cycle Stop Valves, Inc
The CSV1A in this kit will be set for 120 PSI constant, which will give you 60 PSI constant at the top of the hill, less any friction loss that I did not figure. Just added the 10 PSI for friction. But you only have friction loss with small pipe and/or large flow rates. With 1 1/4" pipe up the hill there won't be much friction loss at high flow, and none at low flow. With the CSV the flow rate is determined by how much water you are using at any given time.

The "LT" in the kit means less tank. At that pressure you will need a 44 gallon size tank rated for 150 PSI. That would be a WellXTrol WX250. Working at the 110/130 pressure the 44 gallon size tank will only deliver 6 gallons of water. But that is more than enough when working with a CSV.

 

[Nuke]

Thank you so much for your very informative replies
when you say 1 1/4” pipe up the hill or discharge
if the output from the pump is 1”, can I adapt to the larger 1 1/4”?
and would the addition 1/4 inch be significant over the 450’ run?
and yes the 120-130 steep incline is the elevation difference.
I’m wondering if I should have my gravity feed line go into a holding tank
rather than directly into the pump to prevent demand from possibly exceeding gravity supply? If so about how big?

I have some other basic questions, but I’m thinking I ought to be a big boy and try finding that information myself by reading some other threads

thanks

 

[Valveman]

How much gravity (PSI) will you have at the pump? You can deduct that from what the pump has to build. I would try just boosting from the gravity fed line directly. As long as the suction line is large enough not to starve the pump it will work. You can always add a cistern and float valve latter if needed, But it would save some headaches if you have enough pressure from the gravity to just boost directly from the line.

You can push a lot of water through 1" pipe for a short distance. But when going underground and long distance it is best to step up to larger pipe. Yes the extra 1/4" will make a difference at 450' long. The PK1A controls are 1", which can be stepped up to 1 1/4" for the 450', then when in the house you can step back down to 1" or even 3/4" if not going much further.

 

[Twowaxhack]

 

[Nuke]

Oh ok that makes sense
im not sure if it’s in the rules
but could someone recommend where to get my plumbing equipment?

 

[Valveman]

The links I gave in post #3 will get you the pump and controls. What else are you needing?

 

[wpns]

I’m building my retirement cabin on property that has used a spring for water for over 80 years.
I plan on using a catch basin and gravity feed down the holler to the pump on the valley floor.
My cabin is about a 450’ run up about a 120-130’ steep incline.
We’ll have at least 2 shower heads in the master bath if not more, and 1 upstairs, and an additional 1/2 bath. Oh, there’ll be another 3/4 bath down in the shop on the valley floor.
i’ve tried all the charts and aids but would just really appreciate some sort of simple home spun wisdom.
There seems to always be some knowledgeable sages on these forums, that’s why I use them.
What size lines should I use for the feed and supply up to the house?
I was thinking 2” an 11/4”, but I saw most pumps were 11/4“ supply and 1” pressure???
Which pumps should I be looking at and considering?
I plan on burying the lines about a foot in this neck of the woods.

Thanks in Advance
and I promise I’ll contribute with pix on my project.

Nuke
38 year veteran

Don’t forget a PRV for the 3/4 bath in the valley.

 

[Nuke]

Ok just so I have this properly visualized
gravity feed line goes into inside heated space in shop on valley floor
1” brass check valve before pump inlet
into pump
out of pump and into CSV1A
setup on top of 44 gal pressure tank
into 1 1/4” line to up hill
T fitting to tap off for shop 3/4 bath plus a PRV before bath
then 1 1/4” line to cabin at top of hill
sound about right?

 

[Twowaxhack]

Where are you getting your water from ?

What psi is your initial source and what volume will it supply ?

 

[Nuke]

When I go to the PK1A-LT Cycle Stop Valve site they do no provide for a
Heavy Duty Pressure Switch of 110/130
pit only goes up to 80psi (70/90)

 

[Twowaxhack]

Ok I see you’re getting water from a gravity fed spring and a catch basin.

You sure that’s going to feed the beast you’re setting up ?

 

[Valveman]

When I go to the PK1A-LT Cycle Stop Valve site they do no provide for a
Heavy Duty Pressure Switch of 110/130
pit only goes up to 80psi (70/90)

The heavy duty pressure switch is good to 150 PSI. We just don't supply a button for more than 70/90 as the number of buttons could be endless. After you go to cart there is a box for "any special instructions". Just click 70/90 switch and 80 PSI CSV then put in special instruction box that you need it set for 110/130 with the CSV at 120.

 

[Nuke]

Could I get away with 2” gravity feed line then reduce to 1” at the pump
someone has 500’ of 2” pipe available at a fair price

 

[Twowaxhack]

Could I get away with 2” gravity feed line then reduce to 1” at the pump
someone has 500’ of 2” pipe available at a fair price

I wouldn’t go any bigger. You might need a tank to draw from if it doesn’t work with just the 2” pipe from the spring.

 

[Nuke]

I called the site before I saw your message and she explained I could just put in the comments box what I needed and they‘d set it up for me. Now that sounds like service

 

[Valveman]

A gravity feed line and/or suction to the pump should be one size larger than what you would think for the flow rate. 2" feeding the pump will be great. Gives lots of water available to the pump. Stepping down to 1" at the pump is necessary as the pump has a 1" inlet.