Sewer pipe broke. How to locate it?

[Serge9898]

Hi! my sewer pipe broke under the house and I have a major puddle in the crawl space.
I need help on how to locate the leak.
I bought an endoscope camera but the pipe is full of dark water and I cannot see anything.
I called a plumber for a camera inspection. He confirmed a sewer pipe broke (on the red X location on the drawing), but never called back or did the camerea inspection (too busy with easier jobs).

I bought this ~80 years old rental house 4 years ago. There is a crawl space under unit 1. No crawl space under the garage (unit 2 above garage). The sewer leak seems to come from the "Studio/Laundry room" connection with the lateral sewer pipe. (Red cross).
- The sewer is not clogged and drains ok ( or everything go to the ground??)
- There is no property line clean out or house clean out on my lateral (old house). Only one clean out in the crawl space for bathroom area and one outside for kitchen area.
- I unclogged the unit 1 bathroom 4" drain sewer line with a blow ball (drain blader) 3 months ago...

Big job!!
First I need to drain the puddle of (grey+black) water.
Then I need to localize the leak. But I cannot dig under the "studio" and difficult to dig in the crawl space.
Can you help me with direction to locate the leak?
Thank you!

 

[Twowaxhack]

I have had customers think their pipe was broken but it wasn’t.

The pipe was stopped up and there was a cleanout missing and sewage backed up at the lowest opening, under the house.

You’ll need to quit using the sewer. Dig a trench for it to drain from under the house or use a pump and try to pump it out.

There are many variables, you have to do what’s best in your situation.

 

[Serge9898]

I have had customers think their pipe was broken but it wasn’t.

The pipe was stopped up and there was a cleanout missing and sewage backed up at the lowest opening, under the house.

You’ll need to quit using the sewer. Dig a trench for it to drain from under the house or use a pump and try to pump it out.

There are many variables, you have to do what’s best in your situation.

Yes this makes total sense! There is no real reason for the sewer pipe to break but there is a good reason for the "lowest opening" to pop up when I used the drain blader 3 month ago... (It was a soft clog we couldn't get out with the snake).
We stopped using the sewer and rented a portable toilet.

Is there cheap waterproof plumber suit I can buy to get in this mess to try to locate this "lowest opening"...

 

[Serge9898]

I have had customers think their pipe was broken but it wasn’t.

The pipe was stopped up and there was a cleanout missing and sewage backed up at the lowest opening, under the house.

You’ll need to quit using the sewer. Dig a trench for it to drain from under the house or use a pump and try to pump it out.

There are many variables, you have to do what’s best in your situation.

Thank you Twowaxhack!
Once drained: I am looking for a clean out with the cap popped up (from when I used the blow ball).
What do you mean by: "lowest opening, under the house"? A clean out

 

[Twowaxhack]

Thank you Twowaxhack!
Once drained: I am looking for a clean out with the cap popped up (from when I used the blow ball).
What do you mean by: "lowest opening, under the house"? A clean out

Sure, a cleanout with the top off or whatever. Water is coming out of the pipe some place.

You’ll need to poke around until you find it.

 

[Bird Doo Head]

In a post where the person was seeking a plumber's suit, Twowaxhack wisely mentioned having the space cleaned and disinfected before working in there.

A lot of bacteria, virus' and fungal spores exist in drainage water. Touching the water or what it touched is not wise, nor is breathing what becomes airborne.

I hope your project goes smoothly and turns into an easy-fix!
Paul

 

[Serge9898]

ok: update and question.
Update: We stopped using the sewer, the water in the crawl space is drained, the sewer lateral unclogged.
We looked for the source: no cleanout popped up, etc... The leak seems to come from the ground, where the pipe is underground.
We cleaned the pipe all the way, then did a camera inspection.
The suspected leaking section is about 8-10ft from the 3" clean out: this section seems to have a layer of concrete at the bottom, (about 2 feet long. See pictures)
I don't feel it's the dirt/ground... Because the pipe cleaner doesn't erode it at all, or make some mud... I may be wrong...
This "concrete patch" seems to have a crack... at the bottom... the leak?

Questions: 1. Is it possible that the previous owner fixed a crack with some sort of concrete?
2. What about "no dig pipe restauration", to fix a cracked pipe from inside with some coating like CIPP or epoxy coating? Cheaper than digging in the crawl space?

The rest of the pipe is clean and clear.
Next steps: Now that I have sense of the cause, have a proper camera inspection to confirm?
Then epoxy coating? Your thoughts?
(Yes the ground is being decontaminated. Thanks for your advise on this. Not the question here)

 

[Twowaxhack]

I suggest replacing the piping.

 

[Bird Doo Head]

The stuff that looks like concrete on the bottom might be accumulated grease or soap film. Way back, decades ago, I was the sewer guy at work and saw this in pipes that I replaced often. Also note that animal fat plus water forms a mild acid that will eventually corrode cast iron. It often will then crack longitudinally. This is very common in meat processing plants and in restaurants. Who knows how much grease the previous owner let down the drain over the years?

TwoWaxHack (wisely in my mind) suggested replacing the pipe. The no-dig liners that I've had experience with work very well, but to bring out a liner company for a short run like this won't be cost effective due to set-up and equipment clean-up costs.

If you're game for it, after a disinfecting job is done, replacing the section won't be a horrendous job. If needed, you can rent chain cutters to cut out the bad cast iron section. (They're much faster than using carbide blades in a reciprocating saw.)

Paul

 

[Serge9898]

Ok thank you both! That's very helpful!
This section is right after where the kitchen sink connects, so very consistent with years of grease dumping...
Seems a doable job but I'm getting too old for extended sessions in the crawl space! I will get a quote! ;-)

 

[Twowaxhack]

Chain cutters will probably crush it but you could try. I like the Diablo blades, cuts cast iron like butter.

 

[Serge9898]

Thank you both!
BDH, is this the rental chain cutters you mentioned:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/rental/RIDGID-Ratchet-Soil-Pipe-Cutter-6-69982/316821774It's manual? Is this faster than using carbide blades in a reciprocating saw on a cast iron pipe?

 

[Bird Doo Head]

The cutter you linked is one style of the chain cutters. It's a good type because you only need to rotate it a few degrees to get a 360 degree score line. You don't need to make the handle go all the way around the pipe on the one you showed, so no giant hole is needed.

Start by hand tightening the chain on the soil pipe until it is quite firm. If the pipe crushes, you have to move until you get to a solid section. Then just tighten a very small amount as you push the handle back & forth. This way, even pipes with longitudinal cracks won't shatter. When you hear a loud Pop! sound, the pipe is cut.

But...
TwoWaxHack mentioned a reciprocating saw blade that he likes. He is active in the trade & knows stuff well. The Diablo Steel Demon blades didn't exist when I was active. They look interesting & reviews are quite positive. Plus, at $48.00 for 4 hours cutter rental, the blades are cheaper than the chain cutter rental if you have the saw.

We only had the carbide grit blades in the day, which still exist. They didn't work fast, nor did they last, so everyone had a chain cutter.

You may get lucky and find that you are dealing with plain pipe that is connected with no-hub or mission type clamps. Then you can simply take out the whole existing length.

Whatever way you choose to go, DIY or Hire, I hope your project goes smoothly & safely!

Paul

 

[Serge9898]

I wanted to thank all of you that helped by answering my questions. I thought I would tell the end of the story and share my after thoughts.
I ended up replacing the 3 feet cracked section of the pipe. Sanitized the ground. For $550.
I could have DIY myself but the quote was reasonable and the plumber was nice. (And crawling in a soiled 2 ft crawl space was not fun...)
What I think happened: (See drawing in 1st post above). The clog was near the street collector (no clean out). I tried to open it with a snake that was too short to reach. Then use the bladder, and cracked the weakened old pipe with the pressure I put.
But the clog was still there and the sewer water went through the crack until we realized from the smell.

Using a serious 5/8 75 ft snake got the clog (made of strings). Then fixing the cracked pipe as explained) solved it.

My thought: This forum is really helpful. Not always because it finds the exact root cause, but in my case what was really helpful:
- To take the time to thing about what is the root cause. Before I decide to DIY or contract.
I consulted 5 plumbers and got quotes from $550 to $8564 (precise but 100% BS). Only couple of plumbers checked the crawl place and gave a specific diagnostic. 3 gave vague BS opinion that didn't pass my screening question (that I asked thanks to your help).
- The ability to run the diagnostic to you guys is very helpful. I was able to wait a few days and rent a porta potty for my tenants, while deciding the best solution. But most people I know panic and order the first expensive fix.

What doesn't hep so much. Judgments and strong opinions (especially on side topics).
Again a big thank you!