Sewage Ejector Pit Venting?

Discussion in 'General Plumbing Help' started by WoodyWoo, Sep 11, 2019 at 7:39 PM.

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  1. Sep 11, 2019 at 7:39 PM #1

    WoodyWoo

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    Hello! I recently purchased a home with a finished basement with a powder room. We have been experiencing waves of septic odors over the summer (we have a septic system). The epicenter of stink appears to be in the utility room where the sewer ejector pit resides. I'm not a plumber, but I am confused as to why the vent pipe would be connected to the main sewer pipe (see photo). Is this an approved method of venting?

    I appreciate your thoughts!
     

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  2. Sep 11, 2019 at 8:46 PM #2

    Diehard

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    NO!
    Separate from that illegal vent connection, I have a couple of questions and comments.

    Do you happen to know the discharge capacity of that pump?
    What size is that pipe it's dumping into to?
    What else is that horizontal drain pipe used for?
    How is the powder room sink vented?

    That sump pump discharge should have an isolation valve.

    Refer to the International Plumbing Code(I believe this is your Plumbing Code) Section 712-Sumps and Ejectors and Section 906.5 Sump Vents.
    Here's the link to the code...
    https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IPC2018/chapter-7-sanitary-drainage
     
  3. Sep 11, 2019 at 10:04 PM #3

    turdchaser2000

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    It could be done like this
     

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  4. Sep 12, 2019 at 1:50 AM #4

    Diehard

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    I don't think so!

    First off, where did this printed information come from? Looks like something someone may have just made up and not an official document, based on the info it shows.

    An AAV is specifically noted as not being allowed for sumps.

    The "B" dimension does not make sense. Even though pump selection should be based on the flow vs the head(called the elevation head) that it must be capable of pump to, that "B" dimension IS NOT the elevation head.

    I couldn't even guess where that 20 pipe diameters down stream of the connection of the sump discharge into a horiz. gravity drain line, came from.

    EDIT: Maybe the turdchaser2000 person is from another country with different codes.
     
  5. Sep 12, 2019 at 12:52 PM #5

    WoodyWoo

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    Diehard-

    I don’t know the discharge capacity of the pump.

    The pipe it’s dumping into is 3”. It’s the main sewer pipe that runs out to my septic system, so I would assume all the drains in the house feed into it.

    Since the powder room is directly to the left of the pump, I was able to reach behind the wall and snap a pic of the plumbing set up. In this photo the pipe coming out of the wall on the right is from the sink. It feeds into that larger pipe that appears to go below the concrete floor- I assume that’s the pipe that goes into the pit. The pipe going up and out of the top of the picture, again, feeds into the 3” main. So it looks like this is also improperly vented.


    How can this be made right? Tying into an existing vent somewhere or running a new vent to the roof sounds really expensive!
     

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  6. Sep 12, 2019 at 1:49 PM #6

    frodo

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    aav_sump.png An ejector can not use an air admittance valve and it requires it;s own vent out the roof
    <<<<unless it is an engineered system>>>
    NOT !!!


    the reason it requires it's own vent is why you posted. it stanks.

    what is happening is;
    the pump kicks on and the water is pumped out
    this causes a suction in the tank
    the suction, sucks air into the tank thru the vent

    if it is tied into the vent system. it can suck the seal out of the ptrap
    of the vent pipe it is connected to
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019 at 1:57 PM
  7. Sep 12, 2019 at 3:27 PM #7

    Diehard

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    I believe frodo is reconfirming what I had said about the illegal vent and illegal use of a AAV. I think he may be quoting from a different issue of the International Plumbing Code(IPC).?? Not sure. The link I provided is obviously the 2018 IPC. Believe the requirements on this subject would be the same.

    Both the vent from the sump and the vent for the sink should be disconnected from that 3" drain line going out to the septic system.

    The sump vent must be rerouted so as to be vented outdoors, in accordance with the code restrictions.
    You may be able to get by with an AAV on the sink but if it can be tied in with the new vent line, that would be better.

    frodo, being a professional plumber, can advise on the details, if necessary.
     
  8. Sep 12, 2019 at 5:06 PM #8

    WoodyWoo

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    Installing an AAV at the sink wouldn't be that big a deal. I think I would just make an access panel behind the mirror in the event of any issues down the road.

    Does the sump vent need to go all the way to the roof, or can it be vented somewhere closer to ground level outside?
     
  9. Sep 12, 2019 at 5:37 PM #9

    Diehard

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    Vent Terminals.jpg
    Vent slope.jpg
    Keep in mind that there will be odors coming from that vent terminal, just like the one you already have on the roof, except at a lower elevation.
     
  10. Sep 12, 2019 at 6:13 PM #10

    frodo

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  11. Sep 12, 2019 at 6:18 PM #11

    WoodyWoo

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    From an average DIYer this sounds like a lot of work. I imagine you would have to cut away the drywall near the floor and ceiling of each floor. Drill large enough holes (2" maybe?) through the top and bottom plates of the exterior wall to fit the vent pipe. Then feed the pipe up... wait a sec... I guess you would have to remove all the drywall between the studs so you can get the pipe in there... ugh! Then somehow squeeze into the attic space to make the connections. Not to mention the work on the roof. Dang! Do plumbers do all that themselves?
     
  12. Sep 12, 2019 at 6:35 PM #12

    Diehard

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    @frodo...Is tiring into his main vent stack somewhere, an option.
    Although it may be difficult also, but is it an option he could consider?
     
  13. Sep 12, 2019 at 6:43 PM #13

    Diehard

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    I suppose running the vent pipe up on the exterior of the house, to a termination as frodo has shown on the sketch, would be an option.
     
  14. Sep 12, 2019 at 9:37 PM #14

    frodo

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    The only problem with tying the pit pump into the vent stack
    is it may or may not. cause a trap to back siphon
    like it is doing now

    it is a crap shoot, maybe/maybe not
     
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  15. Sep 12, 2019 at 9:40 PM #15

    frodo

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    I have extensions for my bits that are 24'' long
    so i can get a hole over there when i am over here. LOL
     
  16. Sep 12, 2019 at 10:19 PM #16

    Diehard

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    That's a very good point!
    I would have thought the code would have addressed that, one way or another, but I couldn't find anything.
     
  17. Sep 12, 2019 at 10:27 PM #17

    frodo

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    yep. sealed tank
    water pumps out
    it causes a suction
    that is why it has to have its own vent
    also the reason an aav wont work
     
  18. Sep 12, 2019 at 11:04 PM #18

    Diehard

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    Theoretically, if every thing is sized properly for the maximum capacity of the Pump, it should work fine. But I guess it's not fool proof enough to rely on.
     

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