looks like there is not a vent to the washer drain. also is there a trap p or j to block sewer gas from escaping from washer drain. you shower obviously has one - examine it for example - dont know if you can use one with below grade pump? bill h or maybe there is a sewer outlet such as floor drain or drain to hot water heater pan and water has all evaporated from it (gone dry) fix by pouring water down it once a month
septic odour issue
- Thread starter Sheri
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Sheri, I must say, that even tho its a newer place, it looks like a novice did the plumbing. I don't like the set up. With all those turns and bends, you typically need clean outs. You're missing quite a few. Would you be able to take pics further away to get more in the pictures. drain pipes need to be sloped about 1/8" per foot. From the pics, they look straight. I recommend hiring a qualified journey plumber to re-evaluate your plumbing system. Your pipe going out to the septic system seems to high. Im in Manitoba, and around here our pipes to the septic field are at floor level, usually coming in from under the foundation. There should be no reason to have a seperate pump. House normally needs one pump. The pump takes overflow water from the septic tank into the house through a filter and then the pump sends it to the leech field to be absorbed in the ground. Sheri it just doesn't look right.
jwwing
Well-Known Member
Sheri: I hope that you have resolved this by now. If not, perhaps you should look into the possibility that the water in the sump pump is sitting for awhile and is building up some gas behind it due to decomp. When the washer pump starts the first time, it causes an extra amount of pressure on the sump pump that causes the sump pump to run and the trapped air is pressurized enough to escape from a spring-loaded vent used to keep the draining pumped water from siphoning the water out of the washer. This type of vent is usually not used just because of the problem you are having, but are notorious on RVs.
Tech: Suggesting that Sheri's plumbing system is amateurish is kind of unfair. We don't know why the plumbing was done in what might be considered to be unusual fashion. There could be a number of reasons for the 'C' method used on the main down leg - one is that it was already there when the house was originally built and the basement, etc is an addition or remodel. The fact that the septic comes in above the basement floor only suggests that there is some kind of difficulty for the installation of the septic tank and drain field, or that again it was there already when the basement was added. Or perhaps they started to build one way and changed their minds. As far as needing more cleanouts, that is not a given either. The number of cleanouts is more of a local decision than it is a standard. Besides, getting an honest plumber to look at it, would probably just result in them saying that it is too expensive to change it and for what reason.
Tech: Suggesting that Sheri's plumbing system is amateurish is kind of unfair. We don't know why the plumbing was done in what might be considered to be unusual fashion. There could be a number of reasons for the 'C' method used on the main down leg - one is that it was already there when the house was originally built and the basement, etc is an addition or remodel. The fact that the septic comes in above the basement floor only suggests that there is some kind of difficulty for the installation of the septic tank and drain field, or that again it was there already when the basement was added. Or perhaps they started to build one way and changed their minds. As far as needing more cleanouts, that is not a given either. The number of cleanouts is more of a local decision than it is a standard. Besides, getting an honest plumber to look at it, would probably just result in them saying that it is too expensive to change it and for what reason.
Sheri, I stand by my post. Get a different plumbing contractor to
Take a look at it. As far as the lack of cleanouts, I don't care what
The local codes are. When you have that many turns you need cleanouts.
I've talked to many professional plumbers who are close friends, and it is code
Maybe not where you live, but common sense. , just tells
Me that the plumber or dyi who installed it didn't give a dam, or just didn't know better. So when the plumbing clogs up and there is no cleanout, guess what! Someone is going to have to cut into it, costing more money in the end.
Sheri I live on an acreage with a septic tank and leech field. I to get the smell the first time I do laundry, and its on the first floor. My washing machine drains into a pipe with an air gap which also acts like a vent pipe. Water goes in gas comes out. Nothing really to worry about. We just have to live with it.
Take a look at it. As far as the lack of cleanouts, I don't care what
The local codes are. When you have that many turns you need cleanouts.
I've talked to many professional plumbers who are close friends, and it is code
Maybe not where you live, but common sense. , just tells
Me that the plumber or dyi who installed it didn't give a dam, or just didn't know better. So when the plumbing clogs up and there is no cleanout, guess what! Someone is going to have to cut into it, costing more money in the end.
Sheri I live on an acreage with a septic tank and leech field. I to get the smell the first time I do laundry, and its on the first floor. My washing machine drains into a pipe with an air gap which also acts like a vent pipe. Water goes in gas comes out. Nothing really to worry about. We just have to live with it.
kathymc7719
New Member
Are you sure that this drains into the septic system. Is it possible that the washer is bypassing the septic and going out to a "gray-water" pit?
jwwing
Well-Known Member
By all means, stand by your post. The only thing is that your post should have only had the last paragraph about your situation and perhaps the recommendation that she have someone check it out, which is helpful - the rest was unnecessary and not too helpful IMHO. How much chance is there that not having the cleanout plugs is affecting her problem? And the number of cleanouts is your opinion, it might also be the opinion of hundreds of others, but not really germane to her current situation.
jwwing
Well-Known Member
kathymc7719: If you look at the pictures a couple of pages back, it is pretty clear that it goes into the septic system based on where the pipe goes. I don't see why you would think this might cause the odor she is experiencing.
I think the odor she is experiencing is due to an AAV that has been used to vent the system that the washer and the utility sink drain use. These vents are notorious for leaking a small amount of odoriferous gas, and the release of this gas would be at start up of use - first load of wash, for example.
Sheri
Member
I appreciate all the input!
The placement of the tank and leaching bed is correct for where we live. Its not possible to dig below the grade of the basement. Most basements aren't even sunk completely to ground level - they're dug in and backfill is used. The amount of digging and sand backfill that would be required to sink everything the way you suggest would make the cost of building here ridiculous. All the homes in this area have the same system layout as we do.
Its obvious to me that there's gas sitting in the pipes that gets pushed out with the first load of wash. I just find it strange that it hasn't always been that way. That suggests to be that there's "stuff" in the pipes that wasnt there a couple years ago.
The placement of the tank and leaching bed is correct for where we live. Its not possible to dig below the grade of the basement. Most basements aren't even sunk completely to ground level - they're dug in and backfill is used. The amount of digging and sand backfill that would be required to sink everything the way you suggest would make the cost of building here ridiculous. All the homes in this area have the same system layout as we do.
Its obvious to me that there's gas sitting in the pipes that gets pushed out with the first load of wash. I just find it strange that it hasn't always been that way. That suggests to be that there's "stuff" in the pipes that wasnt there a couple years ago.
Not only would the cost be be ridiculous but the system wouldn't work. Septic systems depend on evaporation and that can't happen with the system being that far below grade.
John
jwwing
Well-Known Member
johnjh20: LOL, we're really running into each other.
Systems that feed through the bottom of the basement of a house are possible and have been used for years in Minnesota. First, you cannot tell how far below grade would be necessary without seeing the lay of the land. Part of the reason for going that far below grade is that the ground freezes almost that far down. So what they do is a cross between evaporation (where most of the water goes, ie, out the top) and percolation (soaking into the ground). That is why an earlier poster suggested a percolation test (or was that on a different thread?). In Sheri's case it appears that percolation is very poor, and digging down in the hardpan below the sand would be difficult, so other designs for leech fields have been devised to allow essentially 'built-up' leech fields. All of them are perfectly legitimate methods and their use depends on the area's features - none are ridiculous or 'can't happen'. For example, in order to install a septic tank near Austin, TX, the ground was solid limestone within the first six inches, so a backhoe-mounted jack hammer was used to break up the rock to get the tank in place - not to mention the leech field. More recently and especially in wooded areas (heavy trees) aerobic systems are used where no leech field is needed - more expensive, but reasonable cost long term.
Point is all of the systems have their 'place', including systems under the floor, on top of the ground, mounded sand, aerobic, what have you, etc, etc.
Systems that feed through the bottom of the basement of a house are possible and have been used for years in Minnesota. First, you cannot tell how far below grade would be necessary without seeing the lay of the land. Part of the reason for going that far below grade is that the ground freezes almost that far down. So what they do is a cross between evaporation (where most of the water goes, ie, out the top) and percolation (soaking into the ground). That is why an earlier poster suggested a percolation test (or was that on a different thread?). In Sheri's case it appears that percolation is very poor, and digging down in the hardpan below the sand would be difficult, so other designs for leech fields have been devised to allow essentially 'built-up' leech fields. All of them are perfectly legitimate methods and their use depends on the area's features - none are ridiculous or 'can't happen'. For example, in order to install a septic tank near Austin, TX, the ground was solid limestone within the first six inches, so a backhoe-mounted jack hammer was used to break up the rock to get the tank in place - not to mention the leech field. More recently and especially in wooded areas (heavy trees) aerobic systems are used where no leech field is needed - more expensive, but reasonable cost long term.
Point is all of the systems have their 'place', including systems under the floor, on top of the ground, mounded sand, aerobic, what have you, etc, etc.
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jwwing
Well-Known Member
Sheri: If you don't like the odor you are experiencing, I would suggest that you look around for an AAV which could have been used on the system. It would look like a stub pipe off the plumbing near the sump pump most likely. See if you can figure out where it is and how to get it off. Then plumb a direct vent to the vent system of your house's plumbing - should fix the odor problem.
