Repipe with Pex A or Pex B controversy

[Baymee]

I've been researching for several days and read all the info on this site about the two pexes. I want to repipe about 15 feet of cpvc, now used for the well water coming into the house, with pex and it involves many fittings such as male adaptors. My water is acidic and all fittings must be plastic.

Uponor has many fittings available and Zurn has almost no fittings. I've read where Zurn Pex B can be expanded just like Pex A and since Zurn doesn't seem to have any fittings, can I use Uponor fittings with Pex B ???

With all the lawsuits against Uponor, I am leery of using Pex A unless it's been redesigned.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I’ve used Rehau pex A for 20 yrs without incident.

I’d use stainless fittings and copper crimp rings with Rehau pexA. I buy the stainless fittings from supplyhouse.com, manufactured by Boshart.


That’s all I have to say.

 

[Baymee]

So, Pex A is made by a company other than Uponor. Obviously, you trust it. Is the inner diameter of a different texture than Oponor? That's where the lawsuits are aiming.

A crimper is cheaper than a $500 expander which is a good point. Do you crimp for foolproof connections?

 

[Twowaxhack]

So, Pex A is made by a company other than Uponor. Obviously, you trust it. Is the inner diameter of a different texture than Oponor? That's where the lawsuits are aiming.

A crimper is cheaper than a $500 expander which is a good point. Do you crimp for foolproof connections?

My first post sums it up.

Have a great night

 

[Bird Doo Head]

If there is any chance the tubing will ever freeze, PEX A is the better choice. It is not damaged by freezing. I've seen the fittings survive, too. My only guess why the fittings survive is that PEX-A expands a bit when the water freezes, taking pressure off of the fittings.

If you think you may accidentally kink it, PEX-A is the better choice. (Heat until clear and it will cool to original shape.)

PEX-A brass expansion fittings can also be removed and re-used. (Cut the ring off, heat until clear and remove. When cool it will return to original shape.) Although not recommended by the manufacturer, I've done it with Uponor PLS fittings, too.


There are generic manual expanding tools on the market for less than 60.00 with a head. Believe it or not, our local Home Depot sells them, but not the tubing nor the fittings. Also, I've seen them on eBay.

I've used Uponor PEX A for hydronic (and some water and chemical transport) since it arrived here in the US. Note than I use Expansion Rings for the most part. No incidents nor problems. Actually, a family member would send it to me from Europe long before it was here in the US.

I think the Uponor lawsuits had to do with one particular colored PEX and the problem units have been removed from the market.

A friend uses miles of PEX-A by Rehau and the fittings because that is what is available locally to her. Twowaxhack mentioned them above. She has not had problems either. SupplyHouse, that he mentioned, is a great source for materials due to their accuracy in filling orders and fast mailing.

Paul
PS: Skip PEX-C. It is more expensive than A or B with no additional benefit. (And is harder to find)
PPS: I am Uponor-Wirsbo trained, so my opinions may be biased.

 

[Baymee]

I'm happy for any advice. I like to learn as much as I can so I only have to do the job once. The piping is from my well pipe entrance to the Well-trol, then through two dirt filters and then through an acid neutralizer. So, it involves alot of fittings and maybe 30 feet of pipe. My water is acidic.

So far, Rehau pipe is recommended, with supplyhouse SS fittings, and crimping or expanding. If crimping works, I don't mind NOT buying an expander.

One other consideration is the SS vs. plastic fittings. I had a 90 deg. Fitting crack in my well pit. It's the grey fitting used with black well pipe. I am leery of using plastic elbows, even though they may are pex material. From reading, I see that pex A is flexible enough that I may not need too many SS elbows. But what about stuff like male adaptors which don't have the stresses of flexing every time the well pump comes on and off? Any problems with using pex for those fittings?

 

[Twowaxhack]

The Boshart stainless steel pex fittings are crimp fittings, not expansion.

 

[Baymee]

Thanks for the clarification Twowax. Supplyhouse has an impressive amount of different SS fittings, which I feel comfortable with.

Let's say I make 50-100 crimps with my project. I would like to buy a quality brand hand crimper for this job. Can you recommend such a crimper?

About 15 years ago, I did some pex work using brass fittings and rings that you crimp on two sides. I never trusted the brass fittings due to the acid water and I replaced it with CPVC. I don't trust that either. The last thing I need is a pipe or fitting failure.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Thanks for the clarification Twowax. Supplyhouse has an impressive amount of different SS fittings, which I feel comfortable with.

Let's say I make 50-100 crimps with my project. I would like to buy a quality brand hand crimper for this job. Can you recommend such a crimper?

About 15 years ago, I did some pex work using brass fittings and rings that you crimp on two sides. I never trusted the brass fittings due to the acid water and I replaced it with CPVC. I don't trust that either. The last thing I need is a pipe or fitting failure.

The Apollo kit has 3 Jaw sets. 1/2-1” that interchange.

You can buy one pretty cheap on eBay. That’s all you need for the few crimps you’ll be making. It comes with a gauge to check the crimps.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3643022314...jcRu4xsSwS&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
I bought one to loan family, neighbors and friends.

I use Sioux Chief copper crimp rings.

 

[Baymee]

I already own a quality crimper for the stainless fittings. Twowax recommended what I believe is the copper ring below. Are there leaking problems with either of these fittings?

 

[Twowaxhack]

There’s nothing to come apart or not “ lock “ properly with the copper crimp ring.

I use the stainless cinch clamps for areas I need a ratchet style crimp in tight areas, very rare it gets used. I don’t think they’re as good.
I’ve heard of problems with the stainless cinch bands. Stick with a quality product, no off brands. Apollo is ok…..

The copper rings are the better product 99% of the time.

I order the 1/2” and 3/4” copper rings by the thousand.

 

[Baymee]

You've convinced me about the ring. I do remember trying to crimp an airline to a barbed fitting one time and the stainless cinch came apart.

I think I have enough info to get started on my project thanks to you alls comments.

I really needed advice on pex. Maybe I sounded like a troll. I retired from almost 50 years in big industry as a millwright/mechanic. Everything in our plant was SS or black iron and our power began life at 300 degree steam at 100 psi. There wasn't an inch of pex to be found. So, thanks for the info.

 

[Pipe Dreams]

I've been researching for several days and read all the info on this site about the two pexes. I want to repipe about 15 feet of cpvc, now used for the well water coming into the house, with pex and it involves many fittings such as male adaptors. My water is acidic and all fittings must be plastic.

Uponor has many fittings available and Zurn has almost no fittings. I've read where Zurn Pex B can be expanded just like Pex A and since Zurn doesn't seem to have any fittings, can I use Uponor fittings with Pex B ???

With all the lawsuits against Uponor, I am leery of using Pex A unless it's been redesigned.

Regular crimp PEX would be most suitable and universal. The only manufacturerer I know of who widely makes PEX A is Uponor.

The lawsuit has to do with the colored coating (red and blue) and its issues, does not effect the white.

Uponor has its place, but for general work, crimp PEX is my vote.

 

[Michael Hanrahan]

If there is any chance the tubing will ever freeze, PEX A is the better choice. It is not damaged by freezing. I've seen the fittings survive, too. My only guess why the fittings survive is that PEX-A expands a bit when the water freezes, taking pressure off of the fittings.

If you think you may accidentally kink it, PEX-A is the better choice. (Heat until clear and it will cool to original shape.)

PEX-A brass expansion fittings can also be removed and re-used. (Cut the ring off, heat until clear and remove. When cool it will return to original shape.) Although not recommended by the manufacturer, I've done it with Uponor PLS fittings, too.


There are generic manual expanding tools on the market for less than 60.00 with a head. Believe it or not, our local Home Depot sells them, but not the tubing nor the fittings. Also, I've seen them on eBay.

I've used Uponor PEX A for hydronic (and some water and chemical transport) since it arrived here in the US. Note than I use Expansion Rings for the most part. No incidents nor problems. Actually, a family member would send it to me from Europe long before it was here in the US.

I think the Uponor lawsuits had to do with one particular colored PEX and the problem units have been removed from the market.

A friend uses miles of PEX-A by Rehau and the fittings because that is what is available locally to her. Twowaxhack mentioned them above. She has not had problems either. SupplyHouse, that he mentioned, is a great source for materials due to their accuracy in filling orders and fast mailing.

Paul
PS: Skip PEX-C. It is more expensive than A or B with no additional benefit. (And is harder to find)
PPS: I am Uponor-Wirsbo trained, so my opinions may be biased.

Gents,

I need to weigh in on your discussion regarding the Rehau PEXa. I have 25-plus years of experience using PEX pipe, including when it was originally invented. I tested it for my application.

In short, in mid-2017, Rehau cheapened their PEXa product to be more competitive with China on price. We used their PEXa for 22 years without any failures in our manufactured machinery; we always build the same spec.

After laboratory tests of the failed pipe in multiple installations (starting from February 2018), it is reported they have burnt extruded material embedded in the wall which dooms the pipe to fail, especially in an expansion/contraction environment, e.g., hot water systems. I can expand more on that.

A conversation I had with the General manager of Rehau Australia confirmed the changes they made in their quality control in Germany which lined up exactly when the failures started.

When I took the issues to them and asked for compensation for the costs to replace the faulty coils, they pulled out the David versus Goliath approach - "We will destroy you with legal costs".

The PEXa they manufacture does not meet the International Standards for PEX pipe that clearly says 'Free of any Defects".
I have photos, videos and reports from two different accredited laboratories.

Regards,
Michael

 

[Pipe Dreams]

Gents,

I need to weigh in on your discussion regarding the Rehau PEXa. I have 25-plus years of experience using PEX pipe, including when it was originally invented. I tested it for my application.

In short, in mid-2017, Rehau cheapened their PEXa product to be more competitive with China on price. We used their PEXa for 22 years without any failures in our manufactured machinery; we always build the same spec.

After laboratory tests of the failed pipe in multiple installations (starting from February 2018), it is reported they have burnt extruded material embedded in the wall which dooms the pipe to fail, especially in an expansion/contraction environment, e.g., hot water systems. I can expand more on that.

A conversation I had with the General manager of Rehau Australia confirmed the changes they made in their quality control in Germany which lined up exactly when the failures started.

When I took the issues to them and asked for compensation for the costs to replace the faulty coils, they pulled out the David versus Goliath approach - "We will destroy you with legal costs".

The PEXa they manufacture does not meet the International Standards for PEX pipe that clearly says 'Free of any Defects".
I have photos, videos and reports from two different accredited laboratories.

Regards,
Michael

What is there to weigh in on? You have stated some opinions and said that you had some proof to support your opinions. The only real power we have as consumers is................not to consume their products. Persoanlly I do no care what kind of pex is used, rather focus on installation "properness".

 

[Twowaxhack]

Gents,

I need to weigh in on your discussion regarding the Rehau PEXa. I have 25-plus years of experience using PEX pipe, including when it was originally invented. I tested it for my application.

In short, in mid-2017, Rehau cheapened their PEXa product to be more competitive with China on price. We used their PEXa for 22 years without any failures in our manufactured machinery; we always build the same spec.

After laboratory tests of the failed pipe in multiple installations (starting from February 2018), it is reported they have burnt extruded material embedded in the wall which dooms the pipe to fail, especially in an expansion/contraction environment, e.g., hot water systems. I can expand more on that.

A conversation I had with the General manager of Rehau Australia confirmed the changes they made in their quality control in Germany which lined up exactly when the failures started.

When I took the issues to them and asked for compensation for the costs to replace the faulty coils, they pulled out the David versus Goliath approach - "We will destroy you with legal costs".

The PEXa they manufacture does not meet the International Standards for PEX pipe that clearly says 'Free of any Defects".
I have photos, videos and reports from two different accredited laboratories.

Regards,
Michael

I use Rehau pex manufactured in Alabama and I’ve never had a failure.

Sorry you had trouble buddy but it sounds like an Australian problem.

 

[Baymee]

Supplyhouse has two crimpers with the dies I need.

One is a Blue Fin for $135 and the other is a Sioux Chief for $160. The latter has no reviews.

Any opinions on either of the tools? I don't want any problems with my crimps

 

[Twowaxhack]

I’d use the Apollo crimper I posted above.

This isn’t rocket science. 99.9 of bad crimps are caused by the user, not the materials or the crimp tool.

 

[Baymee]

Bidding on it

 

[shlasko53]

If there is any chance the tubing will ever freeze, PEX A is the better choice. It is not damaged by freezing. I've seen the fittings survive, too. My only guess why the fittings survive is that PEX-A expands a bit when the water freezes, taking pressure off of the fittings.

If you think you may accidentally kink it, PEX-A is the better choice. (Heat until clear and it will cool to original shape.)

PEX-A brass expansion fittings can also be removed and re-used. (Cut the ring off, heat until clear and remove. When cool it will return to original shape.) Although not recommended by the manufacturer, I've done it with Uponor PLS fittings, too.


There are generic manual expanding tools on the market for less than 60.00 with a head. Believe it or not, our local Home Depot sells them, but not the tubing nor the fittings. Also, I've seen them on eBay.

I've used Uponor PEX A for hydronic (and some water and chemical transport) since it arrived here in the US. Note than I use Expansion Rings for the most part. No incidents nor problems. Actually, a family member would send it to me from Europe long before it was here in the US.

I think the Uponor lawsuits had to do with one particular colored PEX and the problem units have been removed from the market.

A friend uses miles of PEX-A by Rehau and the fittings because that is what is available locally to her. Twowaxhack mentioned them above. She has not had problems either. SupplyHouse, that he mentioned, is a great source for materials due to their accuracy in filling orders and fast mailing.

Paul
PS: Skip PEX-C. It is more expensive than A or B with no additional benefit. (And is harder to find)
PPS: I am Uponor-Wirsbo trained, so my opinions may be biased.

I have had pex B installed where it went through many freeze-thaw cycles without breaking.