Question about a water-powered back up sump pump

[futfut]

Hello guys, I just got a new french drain with a sump pump in the basement. There is a gravity drain with a backwater valve, then a back up eletric sump pump if there is a sewer overflow. My plumber suggests I install a 2nd back up water-powered sump pump for like 500$.
Is it really necessary or is it an overkill? It's been raining a lot this summer and I hardly heard the electric pump running.
What do you guys think?

 

[MicEd69]

The question is the reliability of your electric service. That is the only reason you would want a secondary pumping system. There are battery back-up systems, separate battery backup pumps, total house generator systems using natural gas or propane, etc., including the water powered pump.

I would evaluate your electrical system reliability before jumping into a water powered sump pump, or any other secondary sump pump system for that matter.

 

[Bird Doo Head]

Hello FutFut,

I don't know if this applies to you, but something that people with well water sometimes don't think about is that during a utility power outage, a water-powered sump pump won't work unless you also have a generator to run the well pump. If you have a generator, it would be cheaper just to have a second regular pump around in case yours breaks.

Also check the gallons-per-minute required by each water-powered pump to be sure you have that available. They're not very efficient & need a lot of water, often using as much as one gallon of fresh water to pump two gallons of sump water.

If you decide to skip a back-up pump- battery or water- it is wise to have an extra regular pump at home for when your main pump eventually fails. During heavy rains & sudden snow melts around here, sump pumps sell out quickly at home centers and hardware stores.
Study the existing pump set up so you can feel comfortable swapping pumps later when the basement is starting to fill with water.

Decisions! Decisions!
Maybe this short article will be of interest: https://www.angi.com/articles/why-you-should-install-water-powered-sump-pump.htm

Paul

 

[Bird Doo Head]

This isn't strictly pump related. You mentioned having a backwater valve, but a pump in case of sewer overflow. Doesn't the backwater valve prevent the sewage from backing into your home? I'm confused why you need a pump in case of sewage overflow.

You mentioned that the sump pump is for "sewer overflow". A sump pump isn't safe to use with sewage. You need a proper, explosion proof sewage ejector pump and a sump pit with a vapor tight lid and proper venting for sewage.

Are you getting proper advice from the plumber? Is it worth getting a second opinion from another licensed & insured plumber?

 

[futfut]

Thank you for the answers. Well I'm talking about the storm sewer, not the sanitary one. Either way, if there is an overflow, the backwater valve will prevent the water from coming back but at the same time it won't let the water evacuate from the pit. That's when the eletric sump pump is taking charge of draining the pit. But if the sewers overflow and a power outtage occur at the same time, a 2nd back up water-powered could be very useful. But the chance of that occuring is hard to say.
I'm not living in a flooding area or anything but power outages are not rare around here and can happen a few time a years.
Like i said it's been raining a lot lately and I haven't seen the pump run yet. Maybe i can wait until next spring when the snow melt to see if i really need one.
The extra pump is a good idea if one day the main fails.

 

[turdchaser2000]

Hello guys, I just got a new french drain with a sump pump in the basement. There is a gravity drain with a backwater valve, then a back up eletric sump pump if there is a sewer overflow. My plumber suggests I install a 2nd back up water-powered sump pump for like 500$.
Is it really necessary or is it an overkill? It's been raining a lot this summer and I hardly heard the electric pump running.
What do you guys think?

I’m questioning the $500 to install the backup that seems very low cost to do it correctly to code??

 

[futfut]

I’m questioning the $500 to install the backup that seems very low cost to do it correctly to code??

Well so far, the city inspector gave it a pass.
I don't know about the "low cost'. My plumber won't add another exit line. He will just connect the additional pump the to existing exit line. The supply line is also next to the pit making the installation not that hard.

 

[turdchaser2000]

Well so far, the city inspector gave it a pass.
I don't know about the "low cost'. My plumber won't add another exit line. He will just connect the additional pump the to existing exit line. The supply line is also next to the pit making the installation not that hard.

I would not have one without a dedicate discharge and it should be protected with a rpz. The rpz ,the pump, and the installation parts will exceed $500 before labor

 

[Twowaxhack]

Find out the model of the pump and ask your inspector if back flow prevention is required and if so, what type of protection is required.

Turdchaser has made a valid point and questions should be asked. I can already tell you he’s not planning on installing a RPZ backflow device.

 

[tailgunner]

I have a water powered back up sump pump. It does have its own discharge that goes thru the wall and would dump the water on the grass. Would a RPZ still be needed since backflow would be impossible ?

 

[Twowaxhack]

I have a water powered back up sump pump. It does have its own discharge that goes thru the wall and would dump the water on the grass. Would a RPZ still be needed since backflow would be impossible ?

If it’s connected to a water line then backflow is possible without protection. The level of protection is typically an RPZ assembly. The plumbing inspector in your area would be able to answer your question better than anyone here.

 

[tailgunner]

Wouldn't it suck air from the outside if there was negative pressure in the water supply ?

 

[Twowaxhack]

Wouldn't it suck air from the outside if there was negative pressure in the water supply ?

It can suck water from the pit

 

[Bird Doo Head]

Instead of an expensive RPZ, I wonder if a $25.00 single atmospheric "mushroom" vacuum breaker like a Zurn 35XL would be approved in Quebec for FutFut's pump.

Where I used to work, stainless or chrome versions of 35XL were on the water feeds for the grind chambers & wash down troughs for Hobart Waste Pro 1260's in the meat processing portion of the plant. Those water outlets are under the garbage slurry level. Chemical injector systems, kettles, ware-washing machines, mop sinks all also had them. They were also in the built-in flushing for the trench drains at the truck repair facility's overhead doors.

Since the mushrooms are OK for those, I'd guess they would be OK for sump pumps.


Or Step Up A Notch:
Perhaps a dual check, atmospheric vent device (such as a Watts 9D M2 or the less expensive Conbraco) would be OK.
If a 9D can protect against back-siphoning boiler water with chromates, molybdate and anerobic bacteria I suspect it would be OK for a sump pump supply.


But Probably Not:
I saw a water power pump once that had a hose bibb vacuum breaker in the feed line that was adapted to copper tubing. I kind of think that was not a inspected project.

Some water powered sump pumps come with atmospheric vacuum breakers. BasePump is one brand. Cost is pretty high, however.

Maybe one of these will help save money.

 

[tailgunner]

I have a Basepump unit. It discharges thru the wall and dumps on the grass. You would think the Dual check valve fitting would be ok, can't think of a reason why it wouldn't. I'll be damned if I am going to drop $400.00 plus on one .

 

[Twowaxhack]

I have a Basepump unit. It discharges thru the wall and dumps on the grass. You would think the Dual check valve fitting would be ok, can't think of a reason why it wouldn't. I'll be damned if I am going to drop $400.00 plus on one .

I agree with you but some codes require the RPZ