beerman
New Member
I have an old piston pump (works great) and I want to hook it up to a new pre-pressurized pressure tank. Do I have to bleed all the air from the pressure tank first, or just hook it up like normal?
Piston pump & pressure tank?
- Thread starter beerman
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Just hook it up to the tank and set the tank pressure 2lbs. below the the pump cut in pressure. When setting the tank pressure there should be no water pressure on the tank.
John
John
beerman
New Member
Thanks, the guy at the hardware store said to release all of the air from the tank first because the piston pump will make air, but that didn't make sense to me as the air is on the other side of the bladder.
I wouldn't listen to the hardware guy on this. If your piston pump made air, it would lose its prime.
Like Johnjh2o said, just set the air 2psi less than the on pressure of the pressure switch.
You can do this before the tank is ever hooked up.
Like Johnjh2o said, just set the air 2psi less than the on pressure of the pressure switch.
You can do this before the tank is ever hooked up.
Some of the old Piston Pumps had a schrader valve in the suction side of the pump to make air to the tank. If yours has one, either put a cap on it or take it out and put a plug in the hole. That will stop the air making problem.
The other problem you may have is with the pressure switch chattering. Because of the piston, this can happen sometimes. You may need a button for the bottom of your switch to stop the pulsations from effecting it. Pulsation plugs (buttons) can also plug pretty quick and cause a whole new set of problems. Like blowing up tanks. Jet pumps are much safer.
The other problem you may have is with the pressure switch chattering. Because of the piston, this can happen sometimes. You may need a button for the bottom of your switch to stop the pulsations from effecting it. Pulsation plugs (buttons) can also plug pretty quick and cause a whole new set of problems. Like blowing up tanks. Jet pumps are much safer.
Speedbump, are you sure about the sniffers on a piston pump? I have worked on a few of them and haven't ran across one with a sniffer yet.
Most were used for open flow, but with an air leak in the suction side. what kept it from losing prime?
Most were used for open flow, but with an air leak in the suction side. what kept it from losing prime?
The Piston Pump was actually self priming without adding water if the water level wasn't too low. They would move air unlike a jet pump. It's been too long to remember what brands had the schrader valves, but some did have them. They also had them that had a copper tube that hooked to an air control on the tank that instead of letting air out, let air in when the float got too high. That was how they controlled the amount of air one would pump.
I found this on the Internet, it says it better than I could.
I found this on the Internet, it says it better than I could.
We have two piston pumps, and I know if air is introduced on the suction side the performance drops off dramatically.
With a check valve on the suction, how does the sniffer let in air? I have seen some without the check valve but there life span is only half of the ones that have a check. They are self priming to an extent, but starting a piston pump dry will destroy the liners and pistons in no time.
If you had a link or a picture of one with a sniffer, I would like to look at it... I'll never get too old to learn something new.
With a check valve on the suction, how does the sniffer let in air? I have seen some without the check valve but there life span is only half of the ones that have a check. They are self priming to an extent, but starting a piston pump dry will destroy the liners and pistons in no time.
If you had a link or a picture of one with a sniffer, I would like to look at it... I'll never get too old to learn something new.
If I remember correctly, a check valve was never needed with a Piston Pump unless the valves were leaking.
I'm sure the performance did drop while drawing in air, but that is one way they had of keeping air in the tank.
Here is the best thing I could come up with for a picture. It's in German I think, but it shows an air control and some kind of tubing going to the pump.
I'm sure the performance did drop while drawing in air, but that is one way they had of keeping air in the tank.
Here is the best thing I could come up with for a picture. It's in German I think, but it shows an air control and some kind of tubing going to the pump.
beerman
New Member
I've hooked up the pressure tank and a new pressure switch(30-50 and tank at 28psi) and it looks like the pump can't keep up to the tank. It runs until it hits 50psi cuts out, then I run the H2O, it drops below 30psi,the pump comes on but the pressure drops right off to a slow flow same as not using a pressure tank at all.
Is the pump the problem (just put a rebuild kit into it) or should the settings of the swithc and tank be lowered?
Or is it what it is and I live with very low water pressure?
Is the pump the problem (just put a rebuild kit into it) or should the settings of the swithc and tank be lowered?
Or is it what it is and I live with very low water pressure?
It sounds like you may have some air trapped in the pump, or that's all the water the pump can pump.
If a piston pump has air in it, it will not pump the full volume of water its capable of pumping.
Without knowing how much water your pump is supposed to pump, its hard to say if its air or the pump it self.
Increasing the RPM of the pump will increase the volume of water it will pump.
All piston pumps have a max RPM.
Knowing the make, and model you have, you should be able to find that information.
If a piston pump has air in it, it will not pump the full volume of water its capable of pumping.
Without knowing how much water your pump is supposed to pump, its hard to say if its air or the pump it self.
Increasing the RPM of the pump will increase the volume of water it will pump.
All piston pumps have a max RPM.
Knowing the make, and model you have, you should be able to find that information.
All the piston pumps I worked on (many years ago) only produced around 4 gpm. That's not a lot of water by today's standards. If the pump makes 50 lbs, I would say it's working fine. The fact that it drops to a low pressure while running water is all dependent on what the pump can produce (or get from the well) and how much water your letting flow.
ngh666
B.s. Mechanical Engineer, Well/Pump Tech Cert.
YOU CANNOT INSTALL A PISTON ON A BLADDER TANK AND EXPECT IT TO WORK PROPERLY.
Typically a piston pump will void the warranty of any bladder tank.
I'm another Hardware guy and I sell hundreds of POMPCOS PISTON PUMPs, we used to sell DURA Pistons but they stopped producing piston pumps.
Great machines that require an air volume control unit installed on the pressure tank because the Piston pump does create air and the extreme pressures of the piston, if you are unaware of that then you are completely uneducated on the subject and should not give advice.
I would recommend contacting someone who is a certified Well Technician/ Pump technician such as myself to properly guide you on a SAFE and reliable well system.
Never count on people who have worked on "countless" pumps but have no idea what parts a relevant to what, and cannot confidently and completely answer your questions.
Typically a piston pump will void the warranty of any bladder tank.
I'm another Hardware guy and I sell hundreds of POMPCOS PISTON PUMPs, we used to sell DURA Pistons but they stopped producing piston pumps.
Great machines that require an air volume control unit installed on the pressure tank because the Piston pump does create air and the extreme pressures of the piston, if you are unaware of that then you are completely uneducated on the subject and should not give advice.
I would recommend contacting someone who is a certified Well Technician/ Pump technician such as myself to properly guide you on a SAFE and reliable well system.
Never count on people who have worked on "countless" pumps but have no idea what parts a relevant to what, and cannot confidently and completely answer your questions.
Do you understand that your replying to a post that is 4 plus years old? Your calling me uneducated simply explains your total lack of experience with Piston Pumps and all other types of pumps for that matter.
Piston pumps do produce air if properly set up. The air doesn't have to enter the cylinder either. You can use tubing and a standard air volume control to accomplish keeping the tank from waterlogging. Or you can put a schrader valve directly in the suction and that will not cause loss of prime. A pulsation plug in the bottom of the pressure switch will take care of pulsation of the problem that you say voids a bladder tanks warranty.
Piston pumps do produce air if properly set up. The air doesn't have to enter the cylinder either. You can use tubing and a standard air volume control to accomplish keeping the tank from waterlogging. Or you can put a schrader valve directly in the suction and that will not cause loss of prime. A pulsation plug in the bottom of the pressure switch will take care of pulsation of the problem that you say voids a bladder tanks warranty.
Speedbump is very knowledgeable about things like this. Sounds like you are the one who "has no idea what parts are relevant to what, and cannot confidently and completely answer questions". Who still uses piston pumps for well pumps anyway? Submersibles and jets have been the choice of professionals for at least 50 years. Piston pumps are really old. Might be a reason to use them if you run on solar power, but even then there are better ways.
I will take the advice of someone who has worked on "countless" pumps over that of someone who thinks because they are an engineer and "certified" that they know everything there is to know. I see this all the time. Getting an engineering degree can actually be a detriment, as it makes people think they are smarter than they really are. Getting an engineering degree just means you are trainable, and ready to start your real education. In about 30 years of working on "countless" pump systems, you might be able to "properly guide" someone through a pump installation. The first thing you need to learn, is to never use an old fashioned piston pump for a well pump.
ngh666
B.s. Mechanical Engineer, Well/Pump Tech Cert.
You can cry all you want but it don't change the facts and the fact is you cant install piston pumps on bladder tanks without voiding your warranty. We use them in sugar shacks and I am well aware of how they work. You go ahead use up them bladder tanks champ, you go girl.
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Are you for real? Who said anything about any of us using piston pumps and bladder tanks. That was your creation. Those of us in the well and pump business haven't used a piston pump for a well installation in over 60 years. I don't know what a sugar shack is and don't care, you just keep doing what your doing and we will keep doing what we do.
You are obviously posting on the wrong Forum. Your completely out of your comfort zone.
A lot of companies stop producing piston pumps, because it is an outdated design. The only ones I have seen where 100 years old. And I pulled them out and replaced them with a submersible or jet pump.
If I bring in a bladder tank for warranty, how is anybody going to know it was working with a piston pump? I doubt that any tank manufacturer warranty specifically mentions a piston pump, as nobody that knows what they are doing uses pistons pumps anymore.
