Options for washing machine drain connection to buried sewer line

[frodo]

Oops sorry! I spent too long sitting at my screen before submitting my comment. Didn't see comment before me until I updated.

This only applies to professional plumbers and people taking out permits and getting approvals.
He certainly wouldn't be making it more hazardous, unsafe, insanitary or overloaded beyond what the original code that allowed it did.

Well I suppose one problem would be it wouldn't meet code as it applies to "Alterations to existing".
But it likely would not comply with either the older or newer codes, if you make the visible piping larger than the downstream piping.

BTW...What is that 2" pipe used for currently. Drain and vent for your existing washer?

Ontario Canada plumbing code in 2000 did not allow a 2'' drain to the washing machine
so the 1 1/2'' piping has never been legal or approved for a washing machine.

I had a flashback and recalled that this area had a basement bathroom rough-in. I remember a 3 or 4" pipe in the slab that would accept a toilet so I have to (want to?) believe that the 1 1/2" stub has to be joined to that before going to the stack. I definitely will or have someone check to make sure.

He is tied into [most likely] the old tub drain

Take a 16 pound sledge and bust a hole in the floor close to the pipe
dig it up and LOOK

 

[edee_em]

I haven't come across a machine that published its discharge flow rate. I had to contact and asked the manufacturer about a specific newer model. As it turned out the one I asked about was not one of the newer high discharge flow rate machines.
Here's some interesting reading on the subject.

https://www.pmmag.com/articles/85477-it-s-not-the-plumbing

Good article but did I read it wrong? My takeaway is that any standpipe under 3" is useless in the face of the discharge rates of these HE beasts. Even the author went to a laundry tub as a solution. Funnily, this article was written around the time I started using my Kenmore He3t on a 1 1/2" standpipe and pipe to 1 1/2" sewer. A machine and piping that has never clogged or spit water back up the standpipe. I'm going to check on the discharge rate of my machine to see if it is that slow that I wouldn't have a problem or that I'm the luckiest man in the world.

 

[edee_em]

Well I suppose one problem would be it wouldn't meet code as it applies to "Alterations to existing".
But it likely would not comply with either the older or newer codes, if you make the visible piping larger than the downstream piping.

BTW...What is that 2" pipe used for currently. Drain and vent for your existing washer?

There is no 2" pipe; all 1 1/2". That drain is used for washing machine only.

 

[edee_em]

Just drill a hole in the pipe and stick the washer drain hose in the pipe
then sillycone around the drain hose

no need to worry about doing it right, it will not be inspected



Creating a place that would collect lint,soap, sludge
it would clog up

What you could do.
cut the pipe, add a 2 x 1.5 bell reducer not a bushing
then add a wye with a cleanout

It is not right, and it will clog. but you have a CO right at the trouble spot to quickly poke the crap down the line.
The newer machines have a higher discharge rate than the older ones. exactly what the pump rate is. I dunno
a call to the manufacture with the model and serial number would give you that info.

I would strongly advise. poking a tape measure down that drain. and slowly run it down the pipe
identifing by feel where the turn into the main is. then look at the tape. it would give you the distance.
Busting up the floor, is really no big deal.it is just work, nothing scary

If I ever had to teach someone about "sarcasm", I would use your first sentence! (Hoping I'm right on that call)
Like the tape measure idea. My only concern with going into the floor is that it's a finished basement and I would need to do a bit extra work to do the extra work. Besides, it sounds like 2" piping isn't standing up to what these washing machines are throwing out. Perhaps the laundry tub is the way to go.

 

[edee_em]

Ontario Canada plumbing code in 2000 did not allow a 2'' drain to the washing machine
so the 1 1/2'' piping has never been legal or approved for a washing machine.



He is tied into [most likely] the old tub drain

Take a 16 pound sledge and bust a hole in the floor close to the pipe
dig it up and LOOK

I think the rough-in included toilet and lavatory, ergo the 1 1/2". Surprised about the no 1 1/2" for washer. Plumber did all work to cap toilet and bring up lavatory sewer and knew what I wanted so I guess he screwed me on that.

 

[edee_em]

If you have room to install a small laundry sink, that would help solve the problem of the drain line being undersized.

The sink can handle the fast discharge of washing machine water, and hold it as it gradually goes down that skinny drain.

And a laundry sink is great for so many sloppy clean-up jobs.

Happy New Year to all! Jeff, you mention a "small" laundry tub but how small do you think? I have been looking into your laundry tub option and checked out the washing machine (Kenmore Elite He3t) manual. There it states that the option of draining into a tub requires a tub with a capacity of 20 gallons. I wrote 70 gallons in my original in error, hence this edit. I had a chance to look at the manual for the top-rated (Consumer Reports) LG washer and they don't mention any tub size or standpipe minimums except "meet local codes". 20 gallons seems like a lot. I guess a 20 year old washer isn't as HE as they are today.

 

[frodo]

Happy New Year to all! Jeff, you mention a "small" laundry tub but how small do you think? I have been looking into your laundry tub option and checked out the washing machine (Kenmore Elite He3t) manual. There it states that the option of draining into a tub requires a tub with a capacity of 70 gallons. Knowing what a 50 gallon drum looks like, I don't imagine a 70 gallon tub is anything close to small. There are two plausible explanations of why they want a 70 gallon capacity: (1) in case the tub drain gets blocked and (2) it's a misprint. I can't imagine a washer that is touted for its low water usage is using 70 gallons to wash and rinse a load, is it??

 

[edee_em]

View attachment 22850

Can I blame it on New Year's Eve if I didn't have a single drink? Thanks for the correction Frodo!

 

[Jeff Handy]

Two years ago I was prepping my late father’s house for sale.

I busted up the old giant concrete laundry tub in the basement, to be able to access a foundation crack that needed epoxy injection.

I bought this little tub from HD.
About $30.00.
Incredible value, free delivery, sturdy, and it even lined up perfectly under the 60 year old laundry faucet.
19 gallons.
Probably plenty big, water is draining as water is coming in.

Utilatub 23 in. x 25 in. Polypropylene Floor Mount Laundry Tub

https://www.homedepot.com/p/202041453

HD has a few that are 20 gallons, and of course double wide sinks are available.
Great for washing big comforters, soaking pillows, dog washing after getting skunked, etc.

One good idea is to make up a solid top for it,
with a cutout around the discharge hose.
The solid top is a great place to fold laundry, or just as a lightweight work bench.

PS My parents only used their old tub as a giant slop sink.
I had built them a garden pond, and in the late fall we would bring the non-hardy plants down there to survive the winter, after cutting them back.
A few inches of water and a bright shop light kept them alive til April.

 

[TomFOhio]

You could put in the Mustee 14 Utilatub that will handle 20 gallons.

 

[Jeff Handy]

That is the model I just posted a link to, from HD.

 

[edee_em]

Two years ago I was prepping my late father’s house for sale.

I busted up the old giant concrete laundry tub in the basement, to be able to access a foundation crack that needed epoxy injection.

I bought this little tub from HD.
About $30.00.
Incredible value, free delivery, sturdy, and it even lined up perfectly under the 60 year old laundry faucet.
19 gallons.
Probably plenty big, water is draining as water is coming in.

Utilatub 23 in. x 25 in. Polypropylene Floor Mount Laundry Tub

https://www.homedepot.com/p/202041453

HD has a few that are 20 gallons, and of course double wide sinks are available.
Great for washing big comforters, soaking pillows, dog washing after getting skunked, etc.

One good idea is to make up a solid top for it,
with a cutout around the discharge hose.
The solid top is a great place to fold laundry, or just as a lightweight work bench.

PS My parents only used their old tub as a giant slop sink.
I had built them a garden pond, and in the late fall we would bring the non-hardy plants down there to survive the winter, after cutting them back.
A few inches of water and a bright shop light kept them alive til April.

Sorry to hear about your dad Jeff. I lost my father two years ago as well. It's not easy.

Thanks for the tip on the tub but my wife already warned me about a "plastic" tub. It is a finished basement and part of the "proposed" kitchen area so we are looking for something that will fit a spare cabinet I have when we removed it for the dishwasher in the upstairs kitchen. It is 22 3/8" inside measurement wide and 18 5/16" deep (front to back). A lot of drop in sinks that fit that cabinet aren't going to be 20 gallons.

That brings me to the main question: there's no way they are using 20 gallons to wash a load are they? And even if they are you're kind of saying in your statement "...water is draining as water is coming in" that you never use the majority of the tub for water coming out of the washer. Why do they call for a 20 gallon tub? And, will a smaller tub work?

 

[edee_em]

That is the model I just posted a link to, from HD.

Thank your lucky stars (and stripes) you can buy it in the States. $92 for the same tub up here. Oh well, at least I can take solace in that we have the Raptors and not the Bulls, Leafs and not Blackhawks, but I'd rather have the $60!!

 

[TomFOhio]

If you plug off the 20 gallon fiberglass tub then it would only fill to the top of the tub.

 

[edee_em]

If you plug off the 20 gallon fiberglass tub then it would only fill to the top of the tub.

That makes sense Tom. Thanks. But what if you don't plug the tub? No way it's ever going to get near the top, right? So a smaller sink should work as long as it's not plugged. I'm not seeing (although I'm not looking that hard) any code language about laundry tub size. What are the risks of going smaller? Happy New Year, by the way!

 

[edee_em]

That makes sense Tom. Thanks. But what if you don't plug the tub? No way it's ever going to get near the top, right? So a smaller sink should work as long as it's not plugged. I'm not seeing (although I'm not looking that hard) any code language about laundry tub size. What are the risks of going smaller? Happy New Year, by the way!

I just received an email from LG customer service (on NY day no less) and they stated that LG washers use between 12 and 14 gallons per load, normally. Of course it would vary with load size and/or time of cycle, etc. So, what is that; 6-7 for wash and 6-7 for rinse?But it doesn't sound like it would ever dump out all at once making a 20 gallon tub overkill, for the LG washer.

 

[Jeff Handy]

Yes, the water will be discharged after washing and rinsing in smaller batches.
But because laundry tubs do tend to plug up, they want you to have a tub or sink that can hold a full wash cycle of discharge.

Lint often plugs the drain, or the trap.

And things like sponges, rags, socks can get dropped in there and forgotten about, and they can plug the drain.

 

[edee_em]

Yes, the water will be discharged after washing and rinsing in smaller batches.
But because laundry tubs do tend to plug up, they want you to have a tub or sink that can hold a full wash cycle of discharge.

Lint often plugs the drain, or the trap.

And things like sponges, rags, socks can get dropped in there and forgotten about, and they can plug the drain.

That makes total sense. But have you come across any language in the codes that speaks to tub size? The only reference in the local code I have found is to the 1 1/2" drain-no talk about tub size. Seems odd that a manufacturer would reference tub size but not the codes.

And, in the absence of code re tub size, we use our common sense and manufacturers' suggestions (at least those who provide such guidance) to select an appropriate tub size and maintain that tub to keep it clear of potential plugs.

 

[Jeff Handy]

I don’t have any knowledge of code requirements for laundry tubs, maybe pros here will chime in.

But meanwhile, your wife already said she will only allow a nice drop in laundry sink, so hunt for one of those.

Be aware, the trap will probably be exiting pretty low in the cabinet.