Options for washing machine drain connection to buried sewer line

[edee_em]

Finally getting around to replacing some drain/vent pipe for my washing machine. The 1 1/2" sewer branch line is buried in the basement concrete floor. As you can see from the pic, there isn't much "stub" above the ground. I cut the sole plate to give a bit more room.

I wish to remove those fittings and expose the sewer pipe to make a straight line up to join into the vent and accept the washing machine drain as well. If I understand my options, I can:

1) cut the fitting leaving the bell and then make careful cuts in the fitting down to the sewer pipe without cutting the pipe and then pry away pieces of the fitting,
2) heat up the fitting and try to pry it off,
3) ask the good people at Plumbing Forums for solutions that I have no way of knowing

I guess I'm a bit (no, a lot) worried about damaging the sewer stub. Almost all how-to videos show removing pipe from fitting, not fitting from pipe. Hammering away with screwdrivers and chisels and heating up things all sound like a recipe for disaster. Which, by the way, leads to another question: Let's say the sewer stub is damaged, what needs to be done then? Thanks

 

[breplum]

First, Washing Machine drain size code is 2" (for good reasons)!!!!!
If you want to use the existing, wrong, hub as it stubs out of the slab, then cut the bend off, use a RamBit or other similar tool specifically designed to mill out the pipe left in the fitting and built back up from there.
You should use a low speed on a right angle drill that has a clutch or you can crack the fitting.
I highly recommend you hire a licensed plumbing contractor to do this work.
I do not recommend that you do this yourself unless you set up a bench jig and practice two or more times on test fittings.
Always stuff a rag block down down the pipe to prevent crap from going down into the pipes.

 

[Diehard]

Another method...

https://www.homedepot.com/p/JSC-1-1-2-in-Socket-Saver-J44150/302575484

Now-a-days washing machine drains are typically required to be 2" by codes. Not that it's required to be changed, if it isn't.
And the sooner it ties into a 3" the better. Stay away from any new machine that has higher drain discharge rates.

Keeping the top of the standpipe at its highest allowable height may reduce the discharge rate of the washer a bit since it has to pump a bit higher.

 

[Jeff Handy]

If you have room to install a small laundry sink, that would help solve the problem of the drain line being undersized.

The sink can handle the fast discharge of washing machine water, and hold it as it gradually goes down that skinny drain.

And a laundry sink is great for so many sloppy clean-up jobs.

 

[frodo]

Another method...

https://www.homedepot.com/p/JSC-1-1-2-in-Socket-Saver-J44150/302575484

Now-a-days washing machine drains are typically required to be 2" by codes.

Not that it's required to be changed, if it isn't. see the note below


And the sooner it ties into a 3" the better. Stay away from any new machine that has higher drain discharge rates.

Keeping the top of the standpipe at its highest allowable height may reduce the discharge rate of the washer a bit since it has to pump a bit higher.

102.4 Additions, Alterations or Repairs

''Additions, alterations, renovations or repairs'' to any plumbing system shall conform to that required for a new plumbing system without requiring the existing plumbing system to comply with all the requirements of this code. Additions, alterations or repairs shall not cause an existing system to become unsafe, insanitary or overloaded.

Minor additions, alterations, renovations and repairs to existing plumbing systems shall meet the provisions for new construction, unless such work is done in the same manner and arrangement as was in the existing system, is not hazardous and is approved.



that double speak means, the addition you are working on shall meet the code. but the rest of the plumbing that you are not working on may stay as is.

 

[Jeff Handy]

It shouldn’t be that big a deal to cut out or drill out the concrete around that drain, and see if a larger drain line is right under there to build up from.

Also, is there any chance that some chucklehead just ran that skinny drain through the slab, dumping out into the gravel?

Just wondering.

 

[Diehard]

Oops sorry! I spent too long sitting at my screen before submitting my comment. Didn't see comment before me until I updated.

102.4 Additions, Alterations or Repairs

''Additions, alterations, renovations or repairs'' to any plumbing system shall conform to that required for a new plumbing system without requiring the existing plumbing system to comply with all the requirements of this code. Additions, alterations or repairs shall not cause an existing system to become unsafe, insanitary or overloaded.

Minor additions, alterations, renovations and repairs to existing plumbing systems shall meet the provisions for new construction, unless such work is done in the same manner and arrangement as was in the existing system, is not hazardous and is approved.



that double speak means, the addition you are working on shall meet the code. but the rest of the plumbing that you are not working on may stay as is.

This only applies to professional plumbers and people taking out permits and getting approvals.
He certainly wouldn't be making it more hazardous, unsafe, insanitary or overloaded beyond what the original code that allowed it did.

 

[edee_em]

It shouldn’t be that big a deal to cut out or drill out the concrete around that drain, and see if a larger drain line is right under there to build up from.

Also, is there any chance that some chucklehead just ran that skinny drain through the slab, dumping out into the gravel?

Just wondering.

Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, why are you doing this to me??? That's all I need to think about with everything else. All kidding aside, how does one check that?

 

[edee_em]

First, Washing Machine drain size code is 2" (for good reasons)!!!!!
If you want to use the existing, wrong, hub as it stubs out of the slab, then cut the bend off, use a RamBit or other similar tool specifically designed to mill out the pipe left in the fitting and built back up from there.
You should use a low speed on a right angle drill that has a clutch or you can crack the fitting.
I highly recommend you hire a licensed plumbing contractor to do this work.
I do not recommend that you do this yourself unless you set up a bench jig and practice two or more times on test fittings.
Always stuff a rag block down down the pipe to prevent crap from going down into the pipes.

Should have mentioned that this piping was completed in 2000 and I'm in Ontario, Canada. I have run a Kenmore Elite He3t front loader all that time. I don't want to say I never had a problem, so as to not jinx myself, but I've never had a draining issue with this setup. I am considering bringing in a pro as it looks like a complete redo to meet new code, if I don't use the tub idea.

 

[edee_em]

If you have room to install a small laundry sink, that would help solve the problem of the drain line being undersized.

The sink can handle the fast discharge of washing machine water, and hold it as it gradually goes down that skinny drain.

And a laundry sink is great for so many sloppy clean-up jobs.

Might be the best way to go. Will have to give it some thought.[/QUOTE]

 

[edee_em]

Breplum and Diehard. The tools you mention look like they would remove pipe from the fitting. I probably need the opposite: remove fitting from pipe. Don't know how much sewer pipe there is after those two fittings are removed so cutting pipe out of the fitting won't work for me. Am I missing something?

 

[Jeff Handy]

EDIT!!!
9:23 Central time USA.

This post was heavily edited, so ignore any earlier versions.

As you have said in plan number one, you can carefully cut off everything but the socket end right at the concrete.

So if you leave the socket fitting that is sitting on the concrete alone, and neatly cut off flush the end of the pipe stub that is going into it, you will be left with a socket fitting with some plain pipe glued inside it.

Then you use the Socket Saver reaming bit or similar bit, and ream out the pipe that is not wanted in there.

Or have a pro do the reaming to avoid breaking the socket fitting.

You are left with a nice clean socket fitting, ready to accept a straight piece of pipe going up.

You will want to brace or support that new long vertical riser, to avoid cracking the socket end down at the floor.

As far as finding out what is under the slab, once you cut off everything but the bottom socket end, you can look through the pipe and see what is down there.

There should be standing water there, from a trap, or you can poke in a snake and determine if it just leads to an elbow under the slab, which probably joins up to a larger drain line.

Or it could just show you the gravel under the slab, but probably not.

Either way, you will know once you cut everything off except that last approx 3/4 inch or so of socket fitting right at the concrete.

 

[edee_em]

EDIT!!!
9:23 Central time USA.

This post was heavily edited, so ignore any earlier versions.

As you have said in plan number one, you can carefully cut off everything but the socket end right at the concrete.

So if you leave the socket fitting that is sitting on the concrete alone, and neatly cut off flush the end of the pipe stub that is going into it, you will be left with a socket fitting with some plain pipe glued inside it.

Then you use the Socket Saver reaming bit or similar bit, and ream out the pipe that is not wanted in there.

Or have a pro do the reaming to avoid breaking the socket fitting.

You are left with a nice clean socket fitting, ready to accept a straight piece of pipe going up.

You will want to brace or support that new long vertical riser, to avoid cracking the socket end down at the floor.

As far as finding out what is under the slab, once you cut off everything but the bottom socket end, you can look through the pipe and see what is down there.

There should be standing water there, from a trap, or you can poke in a snake and determine if it just leads to an elbow under the slab, which probably joins up to a larger drain line.

Or it could just show you the gravel under the slab, but probably not.

Either way, you will know once you cut everything off except that last approx 3/4 inch or so of socket fitting right at the concrete.

Guess I never stopped to really look at what is there. The top-most fitting is a street 45 and that is glued into the next fitting, a regular 45. This second 45 is glued to some length of pipe and that is going into something that could be a coupling or something else. Got it. Thanks for the explanation Jeff.

I had a flashback and recalled that this area had a basement bathroom rough-in. I remember a 3 or 4" pipe in the slab that would accept a toilet so I have to (want to?) believe that the 1 1/2" stub has to be joined to that before going to the stack. I definitely will or have someone check to make sure.

 

[Jeff Handy]

You might want to put a tapcon or whatever into those sections of sole plate that got separated, unless there are good anchors close to where you cut them apart.

 

[edee_em]

You might want to put a tapcon or whatever into those sections of sole plate that got separated, unless there are good anchors close to where you cut them apart.

Good advise! I have one to the left and the plate to the right is near the next stud and there is a tapcon or concrete nail just on the other side of that stud.

 

[edee_em]

Another method...

https://www.homedepot.com/p/JSC-1-1-2-in-Socket-Saver-J44150/302575484

Now-a-days washing machine drains are typically required to be 2" by codes. Not that it's required to be changed, if it isn't.
And the sooner it ties into a 3" the better. Stay away from any new machine that has higher drain discharge rates.

Keeping the top of the standpipe at its highest allowable height may reduce the discharge rate of the washer a bit since it has to pump a bit higher.

Our current machine is an HE front loader but it is close to 20 years old. Do newer models discharge water at a significantly higher rate then older HE washers and where would you find such information as a consumer? Do manufacturers list that?

 

[edee_em]

Oops sorry! I spent too long sitting at my screen before submitting my comment. Didn't see comment before me until I updated.

This only applies to professional plumbers and people taking out permits and getting approvals.
He certainly wouldn't be making it more hazardous, unsafe, insanitary or overloaded beyond what the original code that allowed it did.

Kind of get what Frodo is passing along. For example, if I redo all visible pipe and fittings to 2" but keep the 1 1/2" sewer pipe because it's too hard for me to get after it, I would be creating a problem, wouldn't I?

 

[Diehard]

Our current machine is an HE front loader but it is close to 20 years old. Do newer models discharge water at a significantly higher rate then older HE washers and where would you find such information as a consumer? Do manufacturers list that?

I haven't come across a machine that published its discharge flow rate. I had to contact and asked the manufacturer about a specific newer model. As it turned out the one I asked about was not one of the newer high discharge flow rate machines.
Here's some interesting reading on the subject.

https://www.pmmag.com/articles/85477-it-s-not-the-plumbing

 

[frodo]

Just drill a hole in the pipe and stick the washer drain hose in the pipe
then sillycone around the drain hose

no need to worry about doing it right, it will not be inspected

Kind of get what Frodo is passing along. For example, if I redo all visible pipe and fittings to 2" but keep the 1 1/2" sewer pipe because it's too hard for me to get after it, I would be creating a problem, wouldn't I?

Creating a place that would collect lint,soap, sludge
it would clog up

What you could do.
cut the pipe, add a 2 x 1.5 bell reducer not a bushing
then add a wye with a cleanout

It is not right, and it will clog. but you have a CO right at the trouble spot to quickly poke the crap down the line.
The newer machines have a higher discharge rate than the older ones. exactly what the pump rate is. I dunno
a call to the manufacture with the model and serial number would give you that info.

I would strongly advise. poking a tape measure down that drain. and slowly run it down the pipe
identifing by feel where the turn into the main is. then look at the tape. it would give you the distance.
Busting up the floor, is really no big deal.it is just work, nothing scary

 

[Diehard]

Kind of get what Frodo is passing along. For example, if I redo all visible pipe and fittings to 2" but keep the 1 1/2" sewer pipe because it's too hard for me to get after it, I would be creating a problem, wouldn't I?

Well I suppose one problem would be it wouldn't meet code as it applies to "Alterations to existing".
But it likely would not comply with either the older or newer codes, if you make the visible piping larger than the downstream piping.

BTW...What is that 2" pipe used for currently. Drain and vent for your existing washer?