Opinions for best chop saw blade to cut Cast Iron soil pipe.

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The Grimeyest

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Hi all first post on here. Quick introduction I currently have 13 years experience in the plumbing trade(not counting helping my pops when i was a kid.) I do mostly light commercial with some higher end residential thrown in. Back to my issue. Im currently doing a project with LOTS of 4"NH pipe to run. Usually i would use snap cutters myself but i have a 3rd year apprentice with me who can't seem to cut straight to save his life. So instead i put him on a chop saw. The blades keep glossing over so he has to power them through the cut which is causing the blade to run. Im looking for opinions on either blades that seem to have less issues glossing over or any tips to stop the running of the blade. Also has anyone seen a version of the Cast iron reciprocating blades for a chop saw?
 

Geofd

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your apprentice should learn how to cut straight with the snap cutter if he /she doesn't learn from you how will he/she explain to their next employer that they need a chop saw have them use a piece of sand cloth and a piece of caulk/keil make a cut mark all the way around the pipe you will be a better teacher and they will be a better apprentice
you both will benefit from a little after school teaching
 

voletl

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I couldn't agree more the first day that I went on a commercial site using cast iron I learned how to use a snap cutter and a ratchet cutter your Apprentice needs to be taught by you

And no I have not seen any blades that resemble the Sawzall blades used for cast iron
 
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Geofd

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I couldn't agree more the first day that I went on a commercial site using cast iron I learned how to use a snap cutter and a ratchet cutter your Apprentice needs to be taught by you

And no I have not seen any blades that resemble the Sawzall blades use for cast iron
they do make them but not a timesaver I usually use them after making a cut on the vertical...it gives a little wiggle room to get the piece out
 

The Grimeyest

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yay i have tried a wrap and soap stone. Still no go. Honestly i think he needs glasses but when asked if he could see the chalk he got offended and stormed off and called the office. He is newish to our company 2-3 months I believe. So I'm really trying to show him the correct ways to do things but in this instance I'm under the gun on a poorly managed project. And trying to pull my PM's arse outta the fire. And the chop saw works fine i made a few cuts showing him the right way to do it. Watched him make 3 cuts after all were fine. But once i got back into position and called out a measurement the cuts went to crap again. Were talking 3/8" to 1/2" of variance across a 4" pipe. Also this isn't the first time we have been through this. Just 2 weeks ago we were having the same issue with 3" weld pipe and a band saw. Once again stands/wrap/chalk/repeated demonstrations and i got crooked cuts and a few smiley faces. So I'm at a loss other than requesting a different apprentice or finding a way to make it fool-proof. And i really don't want a new apprentice i like the guy personally and he was a maintenance man prior to picking up the trade so he has good general knowledge and picks most things up quickly. EXCEPT clean square cuts lol.
 
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Geofd

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my guess is his heart isn't in it he's just goin thru the motion while you there...if he can make good cuts while you there he know how to do it...when you are an apprentice you have to be able to take advice /criticism … you always pick up thinks from everyone you work with …….and that NEVER ends you always can learn give him a couple more days then call the shop...if things don't change he's gotta learn and your company needs that job competed other wise your the one in question your not the bad guy
 

frodo

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If my helper stormed off and called the office because his panties were in a wad
I would have a new helper the next day
I do not put up with attitude at ALL'

My comment on using a blade instead of the snap cutters is a very simple one
I have already spent a couple hundred on the cutters, I am not going to waste money on chop saw blades

here is a cheater trick on snap cutters
set up the cutters for 2''. then nick the chain link with a grinder
set it up for 3'' then nick the chain link with a grinder
same withh 4'' now he has a visual reference which link to hook to the jaw

another point. if the handle is waist high after adjustment, the cut will be a smooth cut
if the handle is above waist high, the cut will be jagged [smiley face]
below waist high it will not cut,or will crush the pipe

I have taught many youngsters how to use cutters, show then one time and explain the concept
then sit on the gang box and laugh at the monkey trying to fuk the football while he figures it out

the adjustment for 2'' and 4'' is the same
the adjustment for 3'' is different
use 2 pair of cutters, one set for 2 and 4''
1 set for 3'' this might help
 

The Grimeyest

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Normally he would be gone. But do to tight labor market help is hard to find. I already have nicks on my chains but was a good idea. (thought i was the only one who did that) But ill get a second set of snaps. That way if there pre-adjusted it should damn near be fool-proof. As far as monkey fucking the football. I like to have apprentices use my drop in dies for pipe threading just so i can watch them forget to pop the directional lock. Good 30+mins of entertainmanet on a slow day actually had one GENIUS try to use the die backwards since and i quote "The die only spins one way so you have to turn the die around to thread then turn it around to take it back off".
 

WyrTwister

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Your apprentice needs to find a job flipping burgers .

Wyr
God bless
 

frodo

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Your apprentice needs to find a job flipping burgers .

Wyr
God bless
I agree
true story, about a maintenance dude we hired
We built 5, 4 story college dorms, and the job was winding down, we were going room to room bleeding air from base board heaters, flushing terlets and checking for p trap leaks. easy easy day
maintenance man was with us, he had the keys to let us into the rooms
He said he wanted to work with us, wanted to quit his job.
He was making 9 bucks an hour, the next job we were going to was on a Army base a davis bacon wage
he would be paid twice the amount of his currant wage.
we hired him
I set him up in the hall way with a chop saw and ABS pipe, hi job was to cut pipe for the plumbers
2 plumbers. one on one side of the hall another on the other side.
He came to the trailer telling me he wanted to drag up. I asked why? he said the job was to stressful
that he could not handle cutting pipe for 2 plumbers. So I had him sign the voluntary quit form
then told him I had a lead on another job that had no stress and there was only 2 things he needed to know.
he asked what it was he needed to know. I said. will that be horsey sauce or regular sauce
 

frodo

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Normally he would be gone. But do to tight labor market help is hard to find. I already have nicks on my chains but was a good idea. (thought i was the only one who did that) But ill get a second set of snaps. That way if there pre-adjusted it should damn near be fool-proof. As far as monkey fucking the football. I like to have apprentices use my drop in dies for pipe threading just so i can watch them forget to pop the directional lock. Good 30+mins of entertainmanet on a slow day actually had one GENIUS try to use the die backwards since and i quote "The die only spins one way so you have to turn the die around to thread then turn it around to take it back off".
I do not care if i have to do it my self, I will never put up with a helper running to the shop and sniveling to my boss that I am being a meany poo poo head.
if your boss had nuts bigger than a raisin he should have told him YOU were running the job, that his job is to do what the hell you tell him to do,
But HEY...I am old school trained and raised,

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I just remembered
Back when I knew nothing but how to dig a ditch. the boss showed up and asked the plumber how it was going. I started popping off about what we had done, blah blah
the boss looked at me and said, I asked the PLUMBER what was going on
And that was that...you know your place..just dig and learn
 

geoffhazel

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I have never had the pleasure of cutting cast iron pipe, so this whole discussion was new to me. I watched a couple of youtube videos, one plumber sharing his know-how with an old well-used tool, and another short "how to use" video by Ridgid. In either case, they made using the tool look pretty easy.

I'm sure you get better at it over time, but it would seem to someone who's never tried that a person should be able to get the hang of it pretty fast?
 

The Grimeyest

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Ha now and days you can't do that. I was trained by old school guys. So I get it but these pansies are so touchy just calling them a Snowflake means a trip to HR.
 

frodo

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I have never had the pleasure of cutting cast iron pipe, so this whole discussion was new to me. I watched a couple of youtube videos, one plumber sharing his know-how with an old well-used tool, and another short "how to use" video by Ridgid. In either case, they made using the tool look pretty easy.

I'm sure you get better at it over time, but it would seem to someone who's never tried that a person should be able to get the hang of it pretty fast?

using snap cutters is so easy, I do not understand the problem
this is what you do
you walk up to the pipe and cutter, bend over and raise the handle up, rest on on your hip
slide the chain under the pipe, hook the chain to the jaws
if the adjustment is already set, the handle should be waist high for a regular height person
if it is lower or higher, turn the adjustment
here is the hrd part, look at the angle of the cutter to the pipe, if it is not at a 90 degree angle
kick the cutter over to line it up
with a quick downward motion, using both hands push the handle down

if...it bounces yo back up in the air, the handle is to high
if..it crushes the pipe or rips a chunk out of it, the handle is to low

once you have the cutter adjusted, you do not have to adjust it any more
2'' pipe and 4'' pipe use the same adjustment, just hook the same link in the chain every time
3'' pipe is a different adjustment
if you are running 2'',and 3'' pipe, use 2 cutters so that you are not constantly adjusting back and forth
 

geoffhazel

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using snap cutters is so easy, I do not understand the problem
this is what you do
you walk up to the pipe and cutter, bend over and raise the handle up, rest on on your hip
slide the chain under the pipe, hook the chain to the jaws
if the adjustment is already set, the handle should be waist high for a regular height person
if it is lower or higher, turn the adjustment
here is the hrd part, look at the angle of the cutter to the pipe, if it is not at a 90 degree angle
kick the cutter over to line it up
with a quick downward motion, using both hands push the handle down

if...it bounces yo back up in the air, the handle is to high
if..it crushes the pipe or rips a chunk out of it, the handle is to low

once you have the cutter adjusted, you do not have to adjust it any more
2'' pipe and 4'' pipe use the same adjustment, just hook the same link in the chain every time
3'' pipe is a different adjustment
if you are running 2'',and 3'' pipe, use 2 cutters so that you are not constantly adjusting back and forth
How exactly does the cutter work? I mean, what's the forces and physics involved in how it snaps the pipe? If I had to guess, I'd say there are very hard wheels with wedge shaped edges that dig into the pipe all the way around and exert a tension force on it as they dig deeper with wider wedges.
 

frodo

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How exactly does the cutter work? I mean, what's the forces and physics involved in how it snaps the pipe? If I had to guess, I'd say there are very hard wheels with wedge shaped edges that dig into the pipe all the way around and exert a tension force on it as they dig deeper with wider wedges.

you nailed it with a big hammer
 

Diehard

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You don't cut Ductile Iron pipe with a snap cutter, however.

Not to be confused with cast iron soil pipe.
 
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Richard Gavle

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How old is the guy? Hand him a paper with instructions and watch him read it....if he holds it at arms length hand him a set of reading glasses and he may now cut pipe like a pro....Its fvng hard to admit you need glasses.

Take a piece of pipe and watch the guy make a cut with the snap cutter...if he starts doing something wrong correct him and then let him proceed. Repeat this process till he can comfortably make cuts.

Now go back to work and give him some measurements....if the cuts are **** send him the XXXX home as he just has a shitty attitude....You can train a guy how to cut, you can get around vision problems ( I need a bright light to cut anything since I injured both optic nerves) however a shitty attitude is another matter entirely.
 
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