Non-submersible pump for below grade toilet.

[Twowaxhack]

I’m almost positive that I’d combine the kitchen and laundry drains together and run that line independently to the basin

I’d common vent the two showers.

I’d wet vent the two toilets with the two lavatories. Upstream of a double wye for the toilets I’d turn up with a 3” long sweep 90 and install a 3x1.5” double fixture fitting for the two lavatories.

3 float system with alarm control box. 2” solids pump. 60” x 24” reinforced fiberglass basin.

 

[MicEd69]

I’m almost positive that I’d combine the kitchen and laundry drains together and run that line independently to the basin

I’d common vent the two showers.

I’d wet vent the two toilets with the two lavatories. Upstream of a double wye for the toilets I’d turn up with a 3” long sweep 90 and install a 3x1.5” double fixture fitting for the two lavatories.

3 float system with alarm control box. 2” solids pump. 60” x 24” reinforced fiberglass basin.

Twowaxhack, I was wanting and waiting for your input.

His kitchen is on the first floor, so he is plumbing the kitchen drain all above the basement floor to the sump. To combine them would be a lot of concrete work that I don't think he would want to do.

I wasn't sure about the upstream wet venting for the toilets, so doing that will save the vent I suggested just downstream of the toilet double wye.

Now for the showers, what do you mean that you would vent them together? Are you saying you would run them separately into the sump like I suggested because the tight conditions he has, and then tie the vent together which obviously makes sense? Or do you think he can tie the shower drains into the main in an appropriate way and somehow share a single vent?

Thanks for your input.

 

[Twowaxhack]

You could connect both shower drains to the main and vent them with a common vent. Or if you vent the basin with its own vent you could run each shower to the basin. It’ll work fine either way. You would end up with a lot more penetrations.

 

[MicEd69]

You could connect both shower drains to the main and vent them with a common vent. Or if you vent the basin with its own vent you could run each shower to the basin. It’ll work fine either way. You would end up with a lot more penetrations.

With his current layout, I don't think he has enough room to connect the showers to the main with a double wye. Can you use a double fixture fitting flat in the horizontal? And then the vent would be in the main and the showers would be wet vented by a few inches i guess.

But with this tight layout, the showers are well within 8 feet of the sump, so flowing them independently into the sump and venting the sump would be much simpler and a great plumbing layout. A couple of more penetrations in the sump wouldn't be a problem would it?

 

[Twowaxhack]

I’d vent them off the main but he can do how would be best for him.

 

[MicEd69]

I’d vent them off the main but he can do how would be best for him.

Can you use a double fixture fitting flat in the horizontal versus a double wye? I didn't think you could, but that seems to be the only way he could get this to fit as he doesn't have room enough for a double wye?

 

[Twowaxhack]

I’d use a 3x2 or 4x2 combo standing up then install a double fixture fitting or I could use a San cross on top of the combo

That would put me about 15” under the slab at the basin. I would install a 24x60 basin.

A double wye or combo still wouldn’t vent the showers. You can’t wet vent them on the main line because the toilets would flush past them. I don’t think you can lay a fixture fitting horizontal, but it wouldn’t be vented either.

 

[MicEd69]

I’d use a 3x2 or 4x2 combo standing up then install a double fixture fitting or I could use a San cross on top of the combo

That would put me about 15” under the slab at the basin. I would install a 24x60 basin.

A double wye or combo still wouldn’t vent the showers. You can’t wet vent them on the main line because the toilets would flush past them. I don’t think you can lay a fixture fitting horizontal, but it wouldn’t be vented either.

I didn't think you could lay a double fixture fitting horizontally either.

And I didn't think you could wet vent them on the main which confused me when you said, "I’d vent them off the main but he can do how would be best for him.", in you previous post.

And that is also why I said in my post that he would need to vent the trap arm of the showers before they entered the main. His tight quarters makes that a problem, but he could widen the common wall and move the shower drain from the center of the shower towards the wall and perhaps make that work. All this is premised on my supposition that he wanted to keep his drain system and sump as shallow as reasonable.

But running the showers separately into the sump and venting the sump since they are within 8 feet sounds like the easiest thing to do and minimizes the fittings under the slab.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I doubt a plumbing inspector would pass the shower drains piped directly into the basin without first being vented. It would work, I just doubt they would pass it.

I’ll ask for one opinion in a few minutes.

You could leave the walls where they are. Center drain shower bases. I wouldn’t install the shower faucets back to back unless I was forced to.

I don’t consider 15-18” deep to enter a basin. That’s perfect for me.

 

[MicEd69]

I doubt a plumbing inspector would pass the shower drains piped directly into the basin without first being vented. It would work, I just doubt they would pass it.

I’ll ask for one opinion in a few minutes.

You could leave the walls where they are. Center drain shower bases. I wouldn’t install the shower faucets back to back unless I was forced to.

I don’t consider 15-18” deep to enter a basin. That’s perfect for me.

My first suggestion about running the showers to the sump separately was that they could easily be vented in the wall separating the sump from the shower. Then your suggestion of running the shower drains to the sump and venting it, sounded great. So if the inspector wouldn't allow that approach, it isn't really a big deal to vent them up the wall.

And the depth wouldn't be an issue for me either. It was just from his sketches and the fittings he was showing I was assuming he wanted to keep his digging to a minimum.

 

[Twowaxhack]

The inspector agreed it would work and said it’s fine if he never saw it.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I have a homemade pump basin and pump working for a washing machine. It’s on its 4th year. It tripped the GFCI once because the plug in got wet but no other problems. It’s outside a few feet from my workshop buried in the ground.

I built it out of two ACE Hardware garbage cans. One dropped inside the other to make it stronger. I used a 2” mip adapter and conduit nut to secure the pipe to the basin. No gasket.

I used a piggyback plug in float switch that I bought from Ace hardware. The pump was an old ridgid submersible dewatering pump with 1.25” outlet.

I ran the outlet into a trunk line that waters trees that border my property. Certain times of the year we might run 4-5 loads of laundry a day.

The proper systems I build will last 20+ yrs easy with a little luck

 

[MicEd69]

I have a homemade pump basin and pump working for a washing machine. It’s on its 4th year. It tripped the GFCI once because the plug in got wet but no other problems. It’s outside a few feet from my workshop buried in the ground.

I built it out of two ACE Hardware garbage cans. One dropped inside the other to make it stronger. I used a 2” mip adapter and conduit nut to secure the pipe to the basin. No gasket.

I used a piggyback plug in float switch that I bought from Ace hardware. The pump was an old ridgid submersible dewatering pump with 1.25” outlet.

I ran the outlet into a trunk line that waters trees that border my property. Certain times of the year we might run 4-5 loads of laundry a day.

The proper systems I build will last 20+ yrs easy with a little luck

Cool!

 

[SHEPLMBR]

Using a macerator on a septic is not recommended

 

[MicEd69]

Using a macerator on a septic is not recommended

Did a quick search and found that "some municipalities are disallowing their usage with a septic system because of the potential for early leaching field failure." That doesn't seem to follow the digestive process. Those politicians appear to be transferring the logic of not using a garbage disposal in a septic system to not allow a macerating pump in a septic system. I believe that everyone knows the difference between food before and after it goes through the human body. Organic material that has not passed through the human digestive system cannot be processed by the bacteria in the septic system. But the smaller the solids produced by the human body, the more surface area there is for the bacteria to do their thing.

In my quick search I even found a company, Septic Solutions, that has macerating toilets as one of their "solutions".

Some camping trailers have macerating toilets, and there are lots of septic systems receiving those wastes from dump stations. I can see sign now, "NO DUMPING OF MACERATED WASTES".

 

[Twowaxhack]

You do not want a grinder pump on a septic system because it promotes suspended solids. Solids in the drain field effluent is bad for the field. It starved the field of oxygen and can form a biomat layer that essentially turns the drain field into a pond.

With a septic tank you want the solids to stay in the tank. Not be conveyed to the drain field.

 

[SHEPLMBR]

Did a quick search and found that "some municipalities are disallowing their usage with a septic system because of the potential for early leaching field failure." That doesn't seem to follow the digestive process. Those politicians appear to be transferring the logic of not using a garbage disposal in a septic system to not allow a macerating pump in a septic system. I believe that everyone knows the difference between food before and after it goes through the human body. Organic material that has not passed through the human digestive system cannot be processed by the bacteria in the septic system. But the smaller the solids produced by the human body, the more surface area there is for the bacteria to do their thing.

In my quick search I even found a company, Septic Solutions, that has macerating toilets as one of their "solutions".

Some camping trailers have macerating toilets, and there are lots of septic systems receiving those wastes from dump stations. I can see sign now, "NO DUMPING OF MACERATED WASTES".

Well, I work in wholesale. Plumbing sales specifically. I can assure you it is not a politician thing. But you do you.

 

[MicEd69]

Well, I work in wholesale. Plumbing sales specifically. I can assure you it is not a politician thing. But you do you.

Twowaxhack explained the issue, and I guess with a goodly amount of wastewater flow out of the septic tank, that seems plausible. But without his input, the only reasonable explanation I could conceive was that it was a political thing. After all, congress did pass legislation to minimize toilet flushing volume, so now we have problems with clogs in older houses. And several water quality experts want us to run our water lines for 30 seconds before we use the water in our water lines for drinking or cooking.

I am an engineer and have mostly worked in industrial waste treatment facilities with Aerobic systems where you want small particles.

Now Saniflow, the makers of macerating pump systems (so you have to take what they say with a grain of salt), say their testing shows no impact on drain fields of septic systems. But you need to put that in ther "for what it's worth" file.

Thanks, Twowaxhack for educating me.