need some advice about sealing under 1 1/4" check valve on PVC pipe on a shallow well

[Jim Jensen]

this is because I am replacing the PVC check valve, with a bronze one, it takes 2, 3 or more minutes, for the pump to build pressure, when I turn it on, so I am hoping a new check valve will fix that ?? It runs fine, once it gets primed and starts pumping water. I have pics of the material I broke off UNDER the check valve, I am thinking it is some kind of special mix of concrete, or epoxy ??? it chips strangely, not like regular concrete, and it is dark grey, and very fine material (not coarse like regular concrete, I mean.....) anyway, thanks all for any and all advice !!!
this is in Jacksonville, FL area, so likely very shallow well

 

[Twowaxhack]

Might be just plain cement or cement and sand. No rocks. It breaks easy.

 

[Jim Jensen]

yes, that could be it, don't think I have ever seen what cement looks like, with no sand in it....??

I found this, on TerryLove forum, from a google search:

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/diy-shallow-well-with-1-1-4-sandpoint-installation
"A drive point needs to seal to the earth above the screen or depending on the water level, the pump may lose suction. So if you wash it down the hole size will be sloppy and the pipe will not be sealed to the earth. Yet it is not sloppy enough to get any gravel down, and would make it impossible to get a cement or bentonite seal. "

So, guess the reason for that cement or whatever, around the pipe, is to make sure it is SEALED at the top....?? though, with the end of the pipe being submerged in water....??? but, I am sure it is good, to not let surface water get down into the water table.... tho, this is just an irrigation well, and I doubt there are ANY drinking water wells, used, out of such a shallow well...

 

[Twowaxhack]

I’m surprised Terry didn’t recommend a Toto Drake to repair it.

Valveman will be able to direct you with wells. I don’t service wells.

 

[Jim Jensen]

yes, hoping Valveman and other WELL pros will see this and advise.....

I am going to replace the check valve today, but can do the sealing later, the hole is covered very well by a metal roof, and is above the surrounding ground

 

[havasu]

Paging @Valveman

Our go-to expert on anything well related.

 

[Jim Jensen]

after looking at the old "plug", I kind of think twowax is right, it looks like it might just be portland cement.....just not sure if with some fine sand added ????

 

[wpns]

cement or bentonite seal

Given that as a hint, it might be 'Bentonite' or hydraulic cement or something else that swells up when setting.

If you think about it, you probably want a seal around a driven well. On any well, when you draw water faster than the recharge rate, you will run the well dry, and a driven well is just a screen in sand, so the recharge rate when open to the atmosphere is probably pretty small, so you want to seal the top of the well.

 

[Jim Jensen]

yes, I am for sure going to seal it, just need to know the correct material to use, to seal it.....oh, here is the new check valve installed, and all done....

 

[Twowaxhack]

I always hear ValveMan say there shouldn’t be a check valve between the pump and the footvalve.

Could someone confirm or correct me and maybe give an explanation ?

 

[wpns]

I always hear ValveMan say there shouldn’t be a check valve between the pump and the footvalve.

I'm not sure a driven well has a foot valve. Multiple check valves aren't a good thing necessarily, but 'too many' is better than 'too few'.

 

[Jim Jensen]

if it has a foot valve, it is not working, because, after being turned off, it drains down and empties the pump.....with the OLD check valve, that is..... I don't know, check valve was there, when we bought the place, in 2018. House was built in 1960, well was added by neighbor accross the street some years later.....(he helped 2 or more neighbors put in irr wells, after doing one at his home) (just heard this from another neighbor, all the old residents are moved on....)

from what I have read, sand point wells, just have a sand point, at the bottom, no check valve ???

 

[Twowaxhack]

Ancient alien theorists say “ yes “

I have no idea . Y’all sound right to me.

 

[Jim Jensen]

oh, just FYI, this is IRR only, ZERO potable water use (of course, being a SHALLOW well, in FL......)

 

[Valveman]

Sorry for the delay. Granddaughter gave me her cold and I been miserable for days.

No room for a foot valve in a sand point. Just have to put the check valve as close to the sand point as possible. Switching to the metal check valve should help. Adding the steel nipple to the suction of the pump will also help. When the pump runs too long it gets the water warm which will cause PVC to get soft and cause a suction leak. I like a foot or so of metal pipe on the suction for that reason. The union is also problematic. Unions are notorious for suction leaks. Hard to get them tight enough to seal as it is metal to metal seat. I usually just glue everything and don't use a union on the suction side.

 

[Jim Jensen]

Valveman: THANKS for the advice !!! The only reason *I* switched to galv steel union, was that the PVC one SNAPPED when I was tightening it to make sure there were NO suction leaks, before 1st test....... glad to know I "accidentally" made a good move !!! I tested the old PVC check valve, after I took it off, and standing, in a bucket, filled with water, it gradually leaked down past the check valve....!!! OK, only remaining ? is: What do I use to pack around the top of the pipe, below the check valve (to seal the suction, as well as preventing anything from going DOWN into the water table.

OH, and, HOPE you feel better SOON !!!

 

[Valveman]

Bentonite will work and will be the easiest to put in.

 

[Jim Jensen]

anybody know where to purchase ??? when I google, I only get links for FOOD GRADE bentonite...??
EDIT: NEVER MIND, just figured out that most cat litter, is made from bentonite clay.....

 

[Valveman]

I think cat liter has other things in it. Try these.
https://www.texasbentonite.com/bentonite-chips.html