Need advice on shower repipe

[stangel]

Greetings all,

My house was built in 1952, iron pipe and ancient (now dripping) fixtures. I've been unsuccessful in finding replacement valves for the shower (dual-handle, 8" split) so I'm debating pulling it all out from behind and putting in a modern single-handle valve and a new head.

Here's a front view:

and here's what it looks like from behind, through the bedroom closet:

I'm pretty handy and not afraid of my torch but I have a lot of newbie questions:

1. The pressure-balancing valves seem pretty big, is that 2x4 going to be in the way?
2. I can get under the house, so I'm assuming I'll be able to unscrew the elbow and put in a dielectric union -- any advice on that? My biggest fear is that I won't be able to unscrew the decades-old pipe
3. Is it better to attack this from the front or the back? Since I want to move to a single-handle valve, I expect that I'll have to replace a few of the tiles but I'd rather not knock out enough to require a Smitty plate
4. Is that a bond wire running across the back? If so, how does that need to be connected to the new pipe?
5. I think I can bust out enough plaster to get the new pipes under the house, but how do I handle the run up to the shower head? Can I put the elbow on it and then run it up the wall, or do I need to bust it out all the way up so that I can brace the pipe at the top?
6. What's the best order to piece this together? Can some of the elbows be sweat on before installation, or do I work bottom to top, sweating on each piece in turn?
7. I know nothing about new valves -- can someone recommend a) the type of valve to get, and b) specific brands? I've seen Moen recommended here, and read that Delta is okay; I've also read that Kohler changes their products so frequently that it may be hard to get replacement parts 10+ years down the road -- true?

Thanks very much in advance!

Mike

 

[phishfood]

1. The pressure-balancing valves seem pretty big, is that 2x4 going to be in the way?
2. I can get under the house, so I'm assuming I'll be able to unscrew the elbow and put in a dielectric union -- any advice on that? My biggest fear is that I won't be able to unscrew the decades-old pipe
3. Is it better to attack this from the front or the back? Since I want to move to a single-handle valve, I expect that I'll have to replace a few of the tiles but I'd rather not knock out enough to require a Smitty plate
4. Is that a bond wire running across the back? If so, how does that need to be connected to the new pipe?
5. I think I can bust out enough plaster to get the new pipes under the house, but how do I handle the run up to the shower head? Can I put the elbow on it and then run it up the wall, or do I need to bust it out all the way up so that I can brace the pipe at the top?
6. What's the best order to piece this together? Can some of the elbows be sweat on before installation, or do I work bottom to top, sweating on each piece in turn?
7. I know nothing about new valves -- can someone recommend a) the type of valve to get, and b) specific brands? I've seen Moen recommended here, and read that Delta is okay; I've also read that Kohler changes their products so frequently that it may be hard to get replacement parts 10+ years down the road -- true?

Thanks very much in advance!

Mike

#1. Yes, the 2x4 will be somewhat in the way. You could notch it out to fit the valve in place. How much depends upon what valve you use.

#2. If you can get the pipe apart, that would probably be your best bet. If not, there are fittings made called either SharkBites or GatorBites that you can use to transition from one type of pipe to another, so you could cut the galvanized pipe off with a hacksaw or such.

#3. I would try to work from the back. Most of the work can be done from there, and what can't should be able to be done through the hole that you will have to make for the new valve.

#4. I don't know, hopefully someone else can comment.

#5. It might be possible to reuse the shower riser that is there, by unthreading the old valve from it and threading the new valve back in it's place.

Personally, were it my house, I would take out enough of the back wall to replace the whole thing. I am anal that way.

#6. It would probably be easiest to make the final two joints the 90's that turn into the sides of the new valve. The particular situation might dictate something different, but that is generally the way I tie in a valve.

#7. Perhaps Moen's strongest point is the easy availability of parts. Some years back I replaced a Moen cartridge for my Mom that was easily 25 years old. I have run into some problems with Moen valves being hard to "fine adjust" temperature wise. Moens are easy to work on, unless the cartridge gets stuck, in which case you have to by a puller tool.

I have had a Delta in my bathroom for perhaps 5 years now, and I can say nothing but good things about it. No problems, and they are super easy to work on.

I have installed some Kohlers, but not had a lot of experience with them other than that. They seemed to operate well when I checked them at trimout time. As I recall, they were a little more complicated, but not overly so.

One thing I wouldn't do is buy a cheap valve. Parts can be impossible to find, and some of these things are absolute junk to start with, speaking from experience. We install a lot of cheap garbage in apartment complexes, so I know whereof I speak.

 

[havasu]

#4 is just steel strapping tape in order to secure your valve tightly to the 2x4, so it will be rattle free and have less of a chance to become unsecured.

Phish has offered you great advice. Do all your work from the back, and the results will look flawless from the front.

To add, it appears the old valve is connected with a union, making removal easy. I would only cut your threaded pipe as a last resort. Ask me how I know!

 

[stangel]

Thanks both for your prompt and informative replies.

#2 Yeah I spotted those unions and it would make my job a lot easier, but I hate the idea of leaving the old iron pipes in the walls. I don't want to knock holes in it a second time!

#4 It's not the plumber's tape I'm curious about, it's that thin wire (about 18 gauge) that has me perplexed. I guess when I get the old valve out I'll see if it's connected to it. (it's definitely mounted to either the center valve or the 2x4 -- I wonder if maybe that has something to do w/ the backer board for the tile.)

#6 Would you use unions like what's shown? Or do you just flex out the vertical pipes enough to make the last joint into the center valve?

Either of you guys in L.A.? I'll buy the beer...

cheers,

Mike

 

[havasu]

The small wire I believe is going to just be support wire for the tar paper, where it gets lathed and plastered (or backer board)on top of. As far as leaving the old galvanized pipe, it is a judgement call. If you have good water and flow, it will last a long time. If you are considering repiping in copper, now would be the time, but you will need to purchase dielectric unions to keep the metals separated. Are your pipes running from below, and encased in concrete, or do you have a basement where the pipes are running?

 

[stangel]

I have access in the crawl space -- not pleasant but doable. Either way I have to buy dielectric unions because the rest of the house is all iron! :-/

 

[havasu]

The pictures show the pipes going down, so is your crawl space below the house?

 

[phishfood]

#6 Would you use unions like what's shown? Or do you just flex out the vertical pipes enough to make the last joint into the center valve?

Either of you guys in L.A.? I'll buy the beer...

cheers,

Mike

My guess is that since this valve has handles on 8" centers, you should be able to get the new valve to install in between the two pipes without having to separate them further. If you do, transitioning to soft copper beneath the floor would make it pretty easy without requiring extra solder joints.

No, not in LA, but if you ever make it to Central Florida, I will make sure to have some killer homebrew bottled.

 

[stangel]

Sorry for the confusion; yes, about a 3' crawl space below the house (and an attic above, but as you point out the pipes go down).

 

[stangel]

Yeah it seems like with about a 4' rise and 1/2" copper, I should be able to move that pipe over 1/2" to get it over the end of the nipple going to the valve.

Small world -- I used to live in Merritt Island and still have friends in the Orlando area.