Lavatory 4" from wall rule?

[Zanne]

I was reading that a lavatory needs to be at least 4" away from the side walls to allow access for cleaning. Does this same rule apply for a Euro Style vanity where the sink sticks out more than the cabinet underneath?

In particular, this one:

Would I need to have the side 4 inches away from the wall? Or could I have it flush against the wall? Or could I get away with having it be about 2" from the wall?

I believe it is about 26" wide (not sure if that matters). I know that there was the 15" from center rule for certain objects, but I'm not sure about this 4" rule. Can anyone confirm it?

 

[Mr_David]

Never heard the 4" rule but you might want to double check the height of the trap arm coming out of the wall. I've had issue with sinks like that ( with the small goody drawer on the bottom). It interfered with the bottom of the p-trap.

 

[Zanne]

Never heard the 4" rule but you might want to double check the height of the trap arm coming out of the wall. I've had issue with sinks like that ( with the small goody drawer on the bottom). It interfered with the bottom of the p-trap.

Thanks. There's no trap arm yet-- I will have to move some plumbing that is currently sticking up from the floor and put it back into the wall behind the vanity. I'll also put in some insulation since it is an exterior wall.

I am currently trying to figure out the layout of all of the plumbing and what fixtures will go in at which height. Currently the drain pipe just comes out of the floor and would poke through the drawer, but the floor needs to be redone so I'm planning to move it back in to the wall.

Will the water supply lines need to be a certain distance from the drain pipe? I read something about 12" and they can't pass underneath. The water supply lines are already there, but they will also need to be moved back.

 

[Matt30]

If you're moving the drain into the wall, don't forget to install a vent

 

[phishfood]

Thanks. There's no trap arm yet-- I will have to move some plumbing that is currently sticking up from the floor and put it back into the wall behind the vanity. I'll also put in some insulation since it is an exterior wall.

I am currently trying to figure out the layout of all of the plumbing and what fixtures will go in at which height. Currently the drain pipe just comes out of the floor and would poke through the drawer, but the floor needs to be redone so I'm planning to move it back in to the wall.

Will the water supply lines need to be a certain distance from the drain pipe? I read something about 12" and they can't pass underneath. The water supply lines are already there, but they will also need to be moved back.

A few inches above or below, and 3 inches either side of center of the drain pipe. That way the escutchions will fit without trimming.

 

[Zanne]

If you're moving the drain into the wall, don't forget to install a vent

Thanks! I was too lazy to upload the pics, but I've been working on diagrams for the vents. I plan to just add a new vent for the toilet and lavatory since I will be putting them on the exterior wall. The toilet will have the new vent going up from it and I will go up at least 6 inches above the flood level of the lavatory and then have the vent slope upward at 1/4" per foot to meet up with the toilet's vent with an upside-down saniTee. (I just like saying saniTee because it sounds like sanity-- which I think I'm losing).
Here is the current layout plan (although the electrical and such might need to be moved). I did not draw in the vent for the lavatory and sink in this diagram.

Here is a rough diagram of one of the options for the plumbing. I know it needs some changes. Probably need to use 1/8 bends or the combo tee wye thingies.

I also considered running each soil/waste line individually to the main soil pipe and hooking in with the combo wye tee fittings.

A few inches above or below, and 3 inches either side of center of the drain pipe. That way the escutchions will fit without trimming.

Thank you! I'll have to do some measuring and play around with figuring out just where things will fit inside the vanity. I'll want to have accessible shutoffs for both hot and cold water. I'll probably dry fit in the trap and such to make sure there is enough space for everything.

 

[Zanne]

Since this may be of interest to other people who come asking with the same questions, I finally located a reference to the 4" rule. It was in the 2006 International Residential Code.
http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2006f2/icod_irc_2006f2_3_sec007.htm?bu2=undefined
SECTION R307 TOILET, BATH AND SHOWER SPACES
R307.1 Space required.
Fixtures shall be spaced as per Figure R307.1.
FIGURE R307.1 MINIMUM FIXTURE CLEARANCES

However, on the webpage that has the code it also has the 2009 and 2012 versions and the diagram showing the lavatories and the 4" distance was no longer included. When I looked for a section on lavatories, nothing was mentioned about distance from the wall.

The most recent code reference I could find online was the 2012 IRC.
http://publicecodes.cyberregs.com/icod/irc/2012/icod_irc_2012_3_sec007.htm?bu2=undefined
SECTION R307 TOILET, BATH AND SHOWER SPACES
R307.1 Space required.
Fixtures shall be spaced in accordance with Figure R307.1, and in accordance with the requirements of Section P2705.1.
FIGURE R307.1 MINIMUM FIXTURE CLEARANCES

P2705.1 General.
The installation of fixtures shall conform to the following:

1. Floor-outlet or floor-mounted fixtures shall be secured to the drainage connection and to the floor, where so designed, by screws, bolts, washers, nuts and similar fasteners of copper, brass or other corrosion-resistant material.
2. Wall-hung fixtures shall be rigidly supported so that strain is not transmitted to the plumbing system.
3. Where fixtures come in contact with walls and floors, the contact area shall be water tight.
4. Plumbing fixtures shall be usable.
5. Water closets, lavatories and bidets. A water closet, lavatory or bidet shall not be set closer than 15 inches (381 mm) from its center to any side wall, partition or vanity or closer than 30 inches (762 mm) center-to-center between adjacent fixtures. There shall be a clearance of not less than 21 inches (533 mm) in front of a water closet, lavatory or bidet to any wall, fixture or door.
6. The location of piping, fixtures or equipment shall not interfere with the operation of windows or doors.
7. In flood hazard areas as established by Table R301.2(1), plumbing fixtures shall be located or installed in accordance with Section R322.1.7.
8. Integral fixture-fitting mounting surfaces on manufactured plumbing fixtures or plumbing fixtures constructed on site, shall meet the design requirements of ASME A112.19.2/CSA B45.1 or ASME A112.19.3/CSA B45.1.

There is no more mention of the 4" rule. Does this mean that it was eliminated?

If it is still in existence and I'm just not seeing it, do Euro-style vanities count as lavatories?

Edit: I found a document of proposed changes for 2007/2008 IRC and one of the suggestions was the removal of the 4" rule as it was impractical and not supported anywhere in the text of the code. So, I'm guessing that the proposal was accepted.
http://www.iccsafe.org/cs/codes/Documents/2007-08cycle/ProposedChanges/V2_RB1-100.pdf

I'm going to assume this means the 4" rule is not valid. I hope this is helpful to anyone who is wondering about this.

 

[pcride]

Most codes state 12" from finish back of wall to center toilet, then 15" on each side, however reading in some magazines they say up to 13-14 is better. Not for cleaning per sea but to allow space behind it. I wouldn't go more than 13", the wall also provides support for the tank when heavier users are leaving back.

Also how many times have you seen the back of a toilet painted because you can never get behind it. There you go

 

[Zanne]

This was about the lavatory (sink) not the toilet and I was talking about the side distance. But thank you for the reply.

 

[frodo]

toilet tanks are commonly removed to be painted or wall papered/tiled behind.

if it was my house, I would demand it. what happens when yo buy a different toilt?

you would have to paint the whole wall