JackBuilder
Member
The Problem: Pulling the tub spout diverter up to engage the shower head results in a moderately loud vibrating noise and water is split between both outlets. Vibration is hard enough to rattle the pipes and can be heard throughout the house. Not as bad as a toilet water hammer though.
Long story short discovery: low water pressure at the shower valve causes the problem.
Question: What can I do to correct this problem - given all the solutions already tried (see below).
Longwinded background/info:
I recently remodeled (2014) a standard 8x8 bath - call this the MAIN bath. Cast iron tub with Kohler K-304-K valve and Forte Trim. Half inch copper supplies. The Forte shower head was replaced with a Water-Pik hand held shower handle. The previous valve was a Simmons, with diverter handle on the valve trim. This is the bathroom with the problem. It is on the nearest water line branch from the well tank.
In 2013 I remodeled another standard bath in this house - Call this the KIDS bath. Same specs: Cast iron tub with Kohler K-304-K valve and Forte Trim. Half inch copper supplies. The Forte shower head was replaced with a Water-Pik hand held shower handle. The previous valve was a Simmons, with diverter handle on the valve trim. This bathroom does not have the problem. It is the furthest water line branch from well tank.
The problem happened in the MAIN bath right away. The problem does not happen in the KIDS bath.
Pressure observation: It seems that if the water pressure at the problem valve is below 30# when you try and engage the diverter the vibration problem happens. If the well tank is more on the fully charged side of things it doesnt happen - works great. So it is just dumb luck whether you get in to shower and the well tank is near the kick-in point.
Pressure tests: Using a screw on pressure gauge on the threaded faucet on the Laundry sink (furthest fixture) I read Kick-in at 20# and Cut-out at 52# with the softener loop on. I get 25# - 50# with the filter by-pass on.
Using the same gauge at the well tank drain valve I get Kick-in at 42# and Cut-out at 62#. The well tank gauge reads 38# - 64#.
(A 5# drop through the softeners does not seem bad to me for a 15 year old system.)
Plumbing system: Starts on far left side of 34 2-story house with a well tank (Amtrol WX-203, 1 input, 1 output, 40/60 pressure valve), 90s up and then double-Ts for Water Softener loop with shutoffs and by-pass, then Ts for ¾ line to tankless hot water coil on a Burnham boiler - and ¾ line to house for cold, 90s to follow center girt with hot water line, first T up for 2nd floor MAIN bath, 4 feet later- T over for Kitchen, then near end of house- T up for 1st floor Half Bath, then at end of house 90s up to 2nd floor KIDS bath and Laundry Room. The Laundry Room slop sink is the furthest fixture on the line.
Things I have done:
o Called Kohler and they sent me out a new spout (free of charge). Ive got 3 spouts, so they must have done that twice. No change - all 3 spouts.
o Got Kohler to send me a new Valve Kit and Pressure Control Unit (Again, no charge - great company). No change.
o On advice of my plumber, removed valve and pressure unit, closed the curtain, and turned the water on to blow out the pipes - in case there was any debris in the line. Thought this worked for a bit, but, no change.
o Cleaned (flushed) out the well tank of sediment.
o Replaced the pressure switch and gauge on the well tank.
o Tested the shower with the Kohler shower head instead of the hand held. No change.
Im out of ideas. Does anyone know what may be going on here?
Long story short discovery: low water pressure at the shower valve causes the problem.
Question: What can I do to correct this problem - given all the solutions already tried (see below).
Longwinded background/info:
I recently remodeled (2014) a standard 8x8 bath - call this the MAIN bath. Cast iron tub with Kohler K-304-K valve and Forte Trim. Half inch copper supplies. The Forte shower head was replaced with a Water-Pik hand held shower handle. The previous valve was a Simmons, with diverter handle on the valve trim. This is the bathroom with the problem. It is on the nearest water line branch from the well tank.
In 2013 I remodeled another standard bath in this house - Call this the KIDS bath. Same specs: Cast iron tub with Kohler K-304-K valve and Forte Trim. Half inch copper supplies. The Forte shower head was replaced with a Water-Pik hand held shower handle. The previous valve was a Simmons, with diverter handle on the valve trim. This bathroom does not have the problem. It is the furthest water line branch from well tank.
The problem happened in the MAIN bath right away. The problem does not happen in the KIDS bath.
Pressure observation: It seems that if the water pressure at the problem valve is below 30# when you try and engage the diverter the vibration problem happens. If the well tank is more on the fully charged side of things it doesnt happen - works great. So it is just dumb luck whether you get in to shower and the well tank is near the kick-in point.
Pressure tests: Using a screw on pressure gauge on the threaded faucet on the Laundry sink (furthest fixture) I read Kick-in at 20# and Cut-out at 52# with the softener loop on. I get 25# - 50# with the filter by-pass on.
Using the same gauge at the well tank drain valve I get Kick-in at 42# and Cut-out at 62#. The well tank gauge reads 38# - 64#.
(A 5# drop through the softeners does not seem bad to me for a 15 year old system.)
Plumbing system: Starts on far left side of 34 2-story house with a well tank (Amtrol WX-203, 1 input, 1 output, 40/60 pressure valve), 90s up and then double-Ts for Water Softener loop with shutoffs and by-pass, then Ts for ¾ line to tankless hot water coil on a Burnham boiler - and ¾ line to house for cold, 90s to follow center girt with hot water line, first T up for 2nd floor MAIN bath, 4 feet later- T over for Kitchen, then near end of house- T up for 1st floor Half Bath, then at end of house 90s up to 2nd floor KIDS bath and Laundry Room. The Laundry Room slop sink is the furthest fixture on the line.
Things I have done:
o Called Kohler and they sent me out a new spout (free of charge). Ive got 3 spouts, so they must have done that twice. No change - all 3 spouts.
o Got Kohler to send me a new Valve Kit and Pressure Control Unit (Again, no charge - great company). No change.
o On advice of my plumber, removed valve and pressure unit, closed the curtain, and turned the water on to blow out the pipes - in case there was any debris in the line. Thought this worked for a bit, but, no change.
o Cleaned (flushed) out the well tank of sediment.
o Replaced the pressure switch and gauge on the well tank.
o Tested the shower with the Kohler shower head instead of the hand held. No change.
Im out of ideas. Does anyone know what may be going on here?