Insulating Copper Pipes in Attic

[Andy49]

Last year during the hard feeeze in Houston, we had several copper pipes that burst due to no electricity for five days (furnacces did not come on). We had the pipes repaired but now it is time to insulate them. The question is, shall I throw batts of insulation over the pipes or use noodle type insulation for each pipe. The rest of the pipes in the attic are under batts of insulation or exposed.

 

[Twowaxhack]

After 5 straight days of no heat and below freezing temps it wouldn’t matter how you insulated it, it’ll all freeze if it has water in it.

I’d throw batts over it all and get a backup source of heat or have a plan to drain the piping.

 

[Andy49]

I think you are right. I will throw some insulation over it. I am also planning to get a small portable propane heater(approved for indoor use) and use it if needed. By the way, how one goes about draining the pipes? Shutoff the main in the yard and open all the faucets in the house? Thanks

 

[Twowaxhack]

I think you are right. I will throw some insulation over it. I am also planning to get a small portable propane heater(approved for indoor use) and use it if needed. By the way, how one goes about draining the pipes? Shutoff the main in the yard and open all the faucets in the house? Thanks

That would get some water out but if you had an air compressor you could blow the lines out and that would help.

 

[Andy49]

No air compressor and the wife would not have it! Anyway, the authorities have promised (Ha Ha) that we would not lose electricity again. All the systems have been weatherproofed.

 

[RS]

I think you are right. I will throw some insulation over it. I am also planning to get a small portable propane heater(approved for indoor use) and use it if needed. By the way, how one goes about draining the pipes? Shutoff the main in the yard and open all the faucets in the house? Thanks

It would be best to have a T in the line right after the shutoff valve, with a place to connect a compressor, so you can blow everything out. You need a compressor with a tank more that 5 gallons, so you get a surge of air to blow out the low spots. Why won't you wife let you have an air compressor? It would be cheaper than repairing broken water lines, unless you did that yourself! But, if you loose power, then you can't run a electric compressor either. If it's going to happen very often, you need a generator. And, it will happen again!

 

[Andy49]

I alrady bought a tri fuel generator and had a plumber put in gas connection for the generator near the gas meter. The next task is to hire an elctrician to install interlock on the electrical panrel and provide a plugoutside for the portable generator and hook it up to the elctrical panel. Its not a whole house generator, however 5500 watts will run several refigerators, some lights and a furnace. My wife knows my skillset and only other use for my compressor will be inflating tires. Thanks for your help.

 

[RS]

It sounds like you've got most everything covered, but I think you still need an air compressor!

 

[fixitron]

Addressing the original question, heat will always flow from hot to cold and insulation does not stop that flow but only slows it down. Using a "noodle" to insulate a pipe slows heat loss in all directions will only keep pipes from freezing if the water in the pipe can be replaced with warmer water from time to time. Continuous insulation over the top of the pipes in the attic will slow heat loss to the outside, and if the inside of the house is still above freezing, the pipes shouldn't freeze with the second scenario. If you don't have insulation over water pipes in the attic, then the heat in the attic in the summer can heat that water in the pipes to over 130 degF.
On a second topic, a portable propane (or kerosene) heater used to heat inside a home will put products of combustion into the home, which include Carbon Monoxide, Carbon Dioxide and water vapor.

 

[three_jeeps]

A heating source of any type is going to require a source of energy, e.g. electricity, gas, etc. This creates an obvious dependency. IMHO, the best way to prevent frozen pipes is to drain the lines. Hopefully the person that did the plumbing installed shutoff valves to both isolate the attic lines as well as allowing them to drain to a lower level. Then again, you could open the faucets to a slow drip during excessive cold snaps.

In addition to water freezing, I'd be concerned with the water heating. Insulation would slow the heat loss/gain such that you could get by with a 1-2 day freeze and not excessively heat the water in the summer. If it were me, I'd put both noodle insulation around the pipes surrounded by some layers of batting insulation.
J

 

[Twowaxhack]

I like to place the pipe between the insulation and the heated/cooled space.

This allows the heated/cooled air to get to my pipe and then held there by the insulation that’s on top.

 

[Andy49]

It sounds like you've got most everything covered, but I think you still need an air compressor!

I do have a jumper cable/tire inflator thingy and its old but still works.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I do have a jumper cable/tire inflator thingy and its old but still works.

Size matters That wouldn’t do it.

 

[hukre]

How about using Heat Tracing? Although it uses electric power, it is very efficient.
after you attach it to the lines, wrap it with fiberglass insulation.

 

[Andy49]

The lines froze because the electricity went out for days. During previous cold spells, the electricity stayed on and enough heat is generated in the attic with two furnaces. I do like the idea though.

 

[BlueSkyHigh]

I alrady bought a tri fuel generator and had a plumber put in gas connection for the generator near the gas meter. The next task is to hire an elctrician to install interlock on the electrical panrel and provide a plugoutside for the portable generator and hook it up to the elctrical panel. Its not a whole house generator, however 5500 watts will run several refigerators, some lights and a furnace. My wife knows my skillset and only other use for my compressor will be inflating tires. Thanks for your help.

Good deal on the generator and we went with a 19.5KW (NG) because we are addicted to all the conveniences of modern life.

 

[Andy49]

I looked at a whole house backup generator. Too expensive

 

[Twowaxhack]

I looked at a whole house backup generator. Too expensive

It costs $100 in natural gas a day to run my house on a generator in the summer.

 

[RS]

It costs $100 in natural gas a day to run my house on a generator in the summer.

You must be running a lot of AC, and that's not a necessity!

 

[Twowaxhack]

You must be running a lot of AC, and that's not a necessity!

I didn’t know we were only talking about necessities, sorry about that.