Inlet plumbing?

[Twowaxhack]

There are good and bad points to those heat trap nipples. They do make the unit more efficient but they can rattle, they restrict flow, the steel nipple is thin and can rust away as the plastic lining doesn’t always do it’s job.

So I can see both arguments. I personally do not care for heat traps. There are several versions of heat traps, some better than others.

 

[sds1]

There are good and bad points to those heat trap nipples. They do make the unit more efficient but they can rattle, they restrict flow, the steel nipple is thin and can rust away as the plastic lining doesn’t always do it’s job.

So I can see both arguments. I personally do not care for heat traps. There are several versions of heat traps, some better than others.

Well, if/when I replace the dip tube it looks like the part I've currently selected doesn't have the heat trap so

While yer finishing your drink... thoughts on how you would go about plumbing this all back together? I'm not a pro so I need to try and keep risk to a minimum. The dip tube I have selected has the stainless steel MPT nipple on it. I basically have that 10" of straight vertical copper tubing to cut into and work with. So I was thinking of putting 90 elbows to MPT on each side of the cut and connecting then with flexible pipe. I don't know if that's overcomplicating it or not, but I'm thinking the 90's give me lots of room to flex that pipe without crimping it. Your thoughts?

 

[Twowaxhack]

I would connect the water hose to the Drain valve while the water inlet valve was turned off and run that test first. This would prove or disprove if you need a dip tube or not.

I’m about to grill some salmon filets and bake some potatoes and pour up a 32oz beer. I don’t drink whiskey anymore unless I’m with a street walker or at a strip club

 

[sds1]

I would connect the water hose to the Drain valve while the water inlet valve was turned off and run that test first. This would prove or disprove if you need a dip tube or not.

Yep thanks, I still intend on doing that before I start cutting pipe. Just been trying to work thru the other side of the problem too (cost, parts availability, tools needed, etc).

 

[Twowaxhack]

 

[TomFOhio]

Cut the cold water line going into the tank in half and unscrew the male adaptor out of the tank. You should be able to pull the
flair out that is on the dip tube. If you can pull it out then theres no need to replace. If there isn't anything in there then the dip
tube is gone and thats your problem. Make sure you turn your ball valve off.

 

[sds1]

Cut the cold water line going into the tank in half and unscrew the male adaptor out of the tank. You should be able to pull the
flair out that is on the dip tube. If you can pull it out then theres no need to replace. If there isn't anything in there then the dip
tube is gone and thats your problem. Make sure you turn your ball valve off.

Thanks! How would you go about putting it all back together again? I've been looking at my various options using sharkbite, flexible pipe, etc. I have some ideas but would love to hear how the pros would approach it.

 

[sds1]

Hey so @Twowaxhack I've moved my cold water supply to the drain side of the tank per your advice.

The thermostats are both set at 140F, water at the kitchen faucet is a pretty steady 120F. I was getting 120F max prior to this test, I know these thermostats aren't precision devices but I definitely expected the temp to rise but it did not.

Do I need to empty the hot water in order to get a rise in temps? What am I missing?

And I don't really have any feeling about volume just yet, I would probably need to take a shower to find that out.

Thoughts?

 

[TomFOhio]

Thanks! How would you go about putting it all back together again? I've been looking at my various options using sharkbite, flexible pipe, etc. I have some ideas but would love to hear how the pros would approach it.

If you know how to solder pipe just solder a new coupling in.

 

[sds1]

If you know how to solder pipe just solder a new coupling in.

I've never worked with copper pipe but I know how to solder otherwise. But I guess I'm a little worried I wouldn't have enough play in the pipes to get that coupling in. Also the dip tube I found has the nipple attached to the end so I would be starting on that end with 3/4 MPT...

 

[TomFOhio]

Your water heater doesn't come with the dip tube attached to a nipple. I know Bradford White comes that way. I don't see any
reason why you couldn't use it if your dip tube is not in there.

 

[sds1]

I don't see any
reason why you couldn't use it if your dip tube is not in there.

Yeah that was what I was hoping.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Hey so @Twowaxhack I've moved my cold water supply to the drain side of the tank per your advice.

The thermostats are both set at 140F, water at the kitchen faucet is a pretty steady 120F. I was getting 120F max prior to this test, I know these thermostats aren't precision devices but I definitely expected the temp to rise but it did not.

Do I need to empty the hot water in order to get a rise in temps? What am I missing?

And I don't really have any feeling about volume just yet, I would probably need to take a shower to find that out.

Thoughts?

With the cold water connected to the drain valve with the ball valve turned off up top will correct your problem IF the problem can be solved with a dip tube.

If running it this way doesn't totally correct your problem then a dip tube won’t help.

If it doesn’t solve then I would suspect you have something wired incorrectly or some other defect in your work or parts.

I assume you’ve checked for a leak on the hot side and you said that the hot water did stop when you tested for a “ cross connection “

 

[sds1]

If it doesn’t solve then I would suspect you have something wired incorrectly or some other defect in your work or parts.

Alright I will put my meter on it tomorrow and see what I can find. I have largely assumed to this point no issues with the elements, thermostats since they are all new parts, and because I don't believe I made any mistakes with the wiring but then I again I make mistakes all the time so

 

[Twowaxhack]

Alright I will put my meter on it tomorrow and see what I can find. I have largely assumed to this point no issues with the elements, thermostats since they are all new parts, and because I don't believe I made any mistakes with the wiring but then I again I make mistakes all the time so

You understand that with the water connected to the bottom you do t need a dip tube. So your problem should go away if it’s dip tube related.

Double check your wiring.

 

[sds1]

You understand that with the water connected to the bottom you do t need a dip tube. So your problem should go away if it’s dip tube related.

Double check your wiring.

I do understand, thanks!

I was talking about putting my digital multimeter on it tomorrow. Maybe you thought I meant some other meter.

 

[sds1]

OK I verified heater wiring today using this diagram:


All connections are solid and in their proper places.

The DRC across the heating elements is approximately 12Ω.

I verified the behavior of the thermostats switching on/off. Is there usually a significant gap (10F?) between the satisfied/not satisfied triggers on the t-stats?

I traced the switching logic, seems like in "Mode A" when upper t-stat is not satisfied, only upper heating element is engaged. When in "Mode B" the upper t-stat is satisfied, the upper element is out of circuit, and this puts the lower thermostat in circuit controlling the lower element.

Sound right? Any other tests I should do with respect to electrical?

 

[Twowaxhack]

I like to remove the wires from under both element screws and use the continuity tester setting to place a probe on each screw and you should get continuity. Then touch one probe to the bare metal tank, you should not have continuity.

Then while the top element is firing I like to take amp readings with a clamp on meter. Then when the top satisfies and switches to bottom I take amp draw readings at bottom.

Wattage of the element divided by voltage = Amperage.

 

[sds1]

Thanks @Twowaxhack I appreciate your ongoing assist! Assuming electrical is fine... now what?

What are implications of sediment in the bottom of the tank and should I start looking at that? I flushed and drained the tank many times when I replaced the elements, with each flush stirring up a bit more stuff. I probably could have kept doing that for days. I probably should have rigged up my shop vac and gone in thru the lower element cavity but I didn't think about it at the time.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Did connecting the hose to the drain with the ballvalve up top off solve the issue ?