Impossible to install hand held shower holder

[davidmsem]

Someone please tell me what I'm missing to understand.

I'm installing a Kohler handheld shower holder. The directions say the 1/2-in plumbing nipple should stick out of wall 11/16 of an inch. they require exactly 11/16 as when the handheld shower holder tightens, it will make contact with the tile and have a correct amount of tightness so it won't leak.

I called Kohler and they say there is no plus and minus. so they are specifying the extension to be in 16th of an inch, yet plumbing nipples come in half inch in increments. how in the world can you possibly end up at 11/16 of an inch other than luck?

using a 2-in long long half inch nipple I'm a quarter inch short of 11/16, and using a two and a half inch long nipple I'm a quarter inch too long. how in the world could you install this?

I called Kohler and spoke to tech support and they said the only advice they can give me is prior to installation of the shower drop, to set it such that it will be 11/16 in in showing. now that seems crazy. who during rough plumbing, knows what type of shower the person will install, the thickness of the tile, how much float is needed behind the tile to level a wall etc etc this seems crazy to me. Am I missing something?

confused in Bethany.

 

[Geofd]

You could solder 2 male adapters and a piece of copper to make up your nipple, of they want ,just 11/16 sticking out of the wall this should have.been in the rough in directions before a finished wall was up,if you have 2" try a copper street adapter and a regular adapter

 

[davidmsem]

You could solder 2 male adapters and a piece of copper to make up your nipple, of they want ,just 11/16 sticking out of the wall this should have.been in the rough in directions before a finished wall was up,if you have 2" try a copper street adapter and a regular adapter

I don't solder, but a friend does. I will look up what a copper street adapter and regular adapter are to see if I could understand what you're trying to say.

Even if I did it in Rough in, it would be impossible to know The thickness of the tile being used or the amount of vacuum tiles if the wall was out of square etc. easy to be a couple 16ths out. I just can't imagine all around the country where these are being installed people going to these lents to get it installed correctly. I must be missing something or the installations are not very robust.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I install my drop eared Fip ell in the wall 2” deep. The concrete board and tile is typically at least another 1”.

Once the wall is up a screw a long spare nipple into my drop eared fip ell mounted in the wall. I mark the nipple at the finished wall, then add whatever length I need to that mark.

Then I take an over all measurement. Then I solder two 1/2” mip adapters together to make a custom length nipple.

It’s quite simple.

 

[davidmsem]

I install my drop eared Fip ell in the wall 2” deep. The concrete board and tile is typically at least another 1”.

Once the wall is up a screw a long spare nipple into my drop eared fip ell mounted in the wall. I mark the nipple at the finished wall, then add whatever length I need to that mark.

Then I take an over all measurement. Then I solder two 1/2” mip adapters together to make a custom length nipple.

It’s quite simple.

thanks, that's clever! i don't solder and this is the last thing i need to do to finish the bathroom remodel. my first time plumbing. purchased a mini propress and think i did okay.

will see if a buddy can help with the soldering.

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

@davidmsem, is this a separate stub-out just for the hand held shower, or is this the main stub out for the shower head too? If the latter there are plenty of easy solutions.

I have seen an older Symmons pressure balancing shower valve that has a separately mounted diverter along with a separate stub out for the hand held. This is a ridiculously complicated install (with commensurate plumbing behind the wall) with four visible wall penetrations (valve, diverter, 2x stub outs) plus a mount for the handheld.

There are easier solutions if you have just one stub out.

 

[Ludington]

Is there a trim piece that is going to cover where it comes through the wall ? You could just put a plastic or stainless spacer on the longer nipple to get your 11/16. Then the trim will cover it.. maybe an option ?

 

[davidmsem]

@davidmsem, is this a separate stub-out just for the hand held shower, or is this the main stub out for the shower head too? If the latter there are plenty of easy solutions.

I have seen an older Symmons pressure balancing shower valve that has a separately mounted diverter along with a separate stub out for the hand held. This is a ridiculously complicated install (with commensurate plumbing behind the wall) with four visible wall penetrations (valve, diverter, 2x stub outs) plus a mount for the handheld.

There are easier solutions if you have just one stub out.

This is a separate stub out for a hand held shower that is 40" high. We liked the one stub out that feeds water and can hang the hand held.

Thank you.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Sell the propress and hire a plumber is another option.

 

[davidmsem]

Is there a trim piece that is going to cover where it comes through the wall ? You could just put a plastic or stainless spacer on the longer nipple to get your 11/16. Then the trim will cover it.. maybe an option ?

in the Kohler artifacts design, there is no spacer or escutcheon that is separate from the body. that makes it extremely tight tolerance when tightening it down. it can easily be too close to the wall and push hard on the tile or too far away from the wall and leave a space when tightened.
I'm looking at a delta unit that has a rubber washer, and another design that has a separate escutcheon that I could maybe silicone to the wall.

thank you

 

[davidmsem]

Sell the propress and hire a plumber is another option.

in good forums, people are helping do-it-yourselfers learn how to do it. and that's what happened here someone offered me a solution. More than not, contractors that I hired over the years do not do the highest quality job possible. and I respect they are just trying to keep moving and make money, so I don't mind doing things myself. nobody cares about a job more than me, and I take pride in my work. I have many stories of things that went wrong. I'm retired and now have the time to do things carefully and correctly. unless this is an exclusively professional plumbing forum only?

I've saved thousands of dollars over the past year with what I've done with the ProPress. got some prices from plumbers that were just ridiculous. they just think because you're in a nice neighborhood that they can charge more.

 

[Twowaxhack]

in good forums, people are helping do-it-yourselfers learn how to do it. and that's what happened here someone offered me a solution. More than not, contractors that I hired over the years do not do the highest quality job possible. and I respect they are just trying to keep moving and make money, so I don't mind doing things myself. nobody cares about a job more than me, and I take pride in my work. I have many stories of things that went wrong. I'm retired and now have the time to do things carefully and correctly. unless this is an exclusively professional plumbing forum only?

I've saved thousands of dollars over the past year with what I've done with the ProPress. got some prices from plumbers that were just ridiculous. they just think because you're in a nice neighborhood that they can charge more.

I gave you a good option to finish your install. I gave you the professional option/knowledge for FREE. You said that you can’t solder, said you’d ask a friend to see if they’ll help or whatever……..

So the next best advice/ option would be hiring a plumber.

I’m sorry if that offends you. I’d just hate to see all your money and time wasted and your home damaged because it wasn’t correctly done and you grow mold inside your wall.

All the best to you Sir.

 

[user 32496]

I had the same dilemma with a shower I built in our old house and ended up with a gap between the eschaton and the shower wall. I filled it with caulking but I never liked it.

The last shower I built I wanted a supply elbow mounted with a shower hose attached that would go to a hand-held. A little different situation than what you're describing.


But the point is that the KOHLER K-98351-BL Awaken Handshower Supply Elbow has a tube with two ORings on it that the Supply Adaptor slids onto. It gives you a 1/2" leeway on where you frame it all in at. Makes more sense than anything else.

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

A possible solution is forget the Kohler unit if installing it is too complex. Completely agree with you that getting a stub out nipple accurate to 1/16” on a tile wall is darn near impossible.

Scour the offerings from other top manufacturers such as Moen, Delta, Symmons, Price-Pfister, and avoid no name, no support Chinese products. You may be able to find something that’s easier to install.

 

[davidmsem]

I had the same dilemma with a shower I built in our old house and ended up with a gap between the eschaton and the shower wall. I filled it with caulking but I never liked it.

The last shower I built I wanted a supply elbow mounted with a shower hose attached that would go to a hand-held. A little different situation than what you're describing.
View attachment 43842

But the point is that the KOHLER K-98351-BL Awaken Handshower Supply Elbow has a tube with two ORings on it that the Supply Adaptor slids onto. It gives you a 1/2" leeway on where you frame it all in at. Makes more sense than anything else.

View attachment 43843

comforting to know others have experienced a similar issue during their install. I found another holder that had a free floating escutcheon that had 0.8 in of play in it. it worked perfectly! got it in today.

 

[TomFOhio]

OK, hope you learned something on this plumbing site.

 

[user 32496]

comforting to know others have experienced a similar issue during their install. I found another holder that had a free floating escutcheon that had 0.8 in of play in it. it worked perfectly! got it in today.

Good Job! There's aways a way!

 

[RickFlorida]

I'm not a professional so I go slow and have to figure things out. When I totally gutted and remodeled my last bathroom, I had the same issue. I simply went to the store and bought many different lengths of the threaded nipples and then picked one out to screw onto the wood framing before I installed the shower walls. I did fine with that. My major problem was getting the right rough-in depth for the main shower valve. I roughed in my shower valve too deep and had to buy an extension for the outter shower valves and barely got the install done. I had no choice though and cant' afford to pay the quotes asked for this area.

 

[Mitchell-DIY-Guy]

…My major problem was getting the right rough-in depth for the main shower valve…

The shower valves I’ve installed (and others I’ve watched) all came with plastic rough-in guides with detailed mounting instructions. Did the one you install not come with this information?

 

[RickFlorida]

The shower valves I’ve installed (and others I’ve watched) all came with plastic rough-in guides with detailed mounting instructions. Did the one you install not come with this information?

It did. The problem is a combination of lack of experience and that the acrylic shower wall kit I purchased was not flat, it had contours all over the damn place. Had I installed just flat waterpoof backing board and then tiled it, it would have been easy as hell. But the shower wall kit had all kinds of curves and contours. Something I didn't think about until it was too late into the project. (the depth of the acrylic shower was not the same across the width). A ridiculous design flaw in terms of making installation easy.