Help with water pump specs

[Kevin S]

Can someone please help me with the specs of this pump. It feeds our 120 gallon bladder tank for the domestic water on our farm when I look up the Grundfos number the one I find doesn't match. We may have to replace it soon and I want to make sure we get the right pump. The gpm is what has me stumped. I also have no idea what the runtime is.

 

[Twowaxhack]

1.76-15.4 gpm at 180.5’ - 95’ and it’ll run continuous if it has enough water.

 

[Kevin S]

1.76-15.4 gpm at 180.5’ - 95’ and it’ll run continuous if it has enough water.

Thank you Twowax. If I need to replace it what should I be looking at as far as the specs. I've looked around some and am having a hard time finding a match. The bladder tank is right next to the pump.

 

[Valveman]

I guess that is an older number. I found one that is close. New model number is on the top right of the curve.

 

[Valveman]

I believe it is considered a 1.5HP. It would be very similar to the Goulds J15S or other 1.5HP jet pumps. With a 30/50 pressure switch the 120 gallon size tank should give about 30 gallons of draw down. That pump should have about a 2 minute run time to fill that size tank. But if you are having to replace the pump and/or tank soon, it is probably because 2 minutes of run time is not enough and the cycling on and off is causing the failure of the pump, tank, switch, check valve, etc. Starting with a good pump is important. But eliminating the cycling will make any pump last longer. With a PK1A kit and a 10 gallon size pressure tank the pump will cycle less and last longer than with the 120 gallon size tank. Run time is kind of unimportant if the pump runs continuously while water is being used continuously, which is what the Cycle Stop Valve in the PK1A kit will make happen.

https://cyclestopvalves.com/collections/frontpage/products/custom-pk1a-pside-kick-kit

 

[Kevin S]

Thanks Valveman. I hadn't heard of a cycle stop valve until now. I've been checking around to see if there's a concensus. Our system is a spring fed 1500 gallon storage tank 30' away from and about the same elevation as the pump it feeds. The pump is right next to the 120 gallon pressure tank. Spread out on about 3/4 of an acre are 5 structures each with showers, toilets, sinks, etc. There's also a half acre garden which pretty much gets watered every day for most of the day. We think our pump is about 12 years old. I would like to hear some opinions on whether we should replace our pressure tank or go with the cycle stop valve.

 

[Valveman]

If your 120 gallon pressure tank and pressure switch are still good there is no reason to replace them. Just add a CSV1A to the inlet side of the pressure tank and there will be no more cycling on and off while watering the garden or anything else. But if the tank needs replacing the CSV will save you a thousand bucks as I would purchase no larger than a 10 gallon size pressure tank for your application. As you will see when you study how the CSV is working, the water just goes right past the tank straight to the open tap. The CSV makes the pump supply exactly the same amount as is being used, so there is no extra water to fill the pressure tank. As long as you are using more than 1 GPM, the water goes right past the tank and the system doesn't know if it is a 1 gallon or a million gallon size tank.

There is no "consensus" on the Cycle Stop Valve. Lol! Since it was patented in 1993 there have been numerous people who have lost their minds trying to understand how this simple valve can do so many beneficial things. It sounds too good to be true, I know. Fortunately, it is just an inexpensive valve that is easy to add to an existing system. It still works with the same pressure tank/pressure switch type systems. You don't have to completely reconfigure a water system to add a Cycle Stop Valve. If you do not immediately and forever see a definite improvement in how your system works, take it off and send it back for a full refund. I have received three back over 30 years from people who just can't wrap their heads around the FACT that it is best for a pump to run continuously when water is being used. Everyone else sends back a picture and kind words like the several hundred you will find here. Reviews – Cycle Stop Valves, Inc

 

[Kevin S]

I appreciate all of your input on this. And I hate to keep bugging you. We basically have a small community that relies on this system so I want to get it right.
You said it could be returned after we try it for a full refund. The website states only unused parts can be returned.
Also, this whole thing started because we're pretty sure our pressure tank is going bad due to the pump cycling far more than it should. Could we leave our big tank and just add a valve to the system?

 

[Valveman]

I appreciate all of your input on this. And I hate to keep bugging you. We basically have a small community that relies on this system so I want to get it right.
You said it could be returned after we try it for a full refund. The website states only unused parts can be returned.
Also, this whole thing started because we're pretty sure our pressure tank is going bad due to the pump cycling far more than it should. Could we leave our big tank and just add a valve to the system?

If it doesn't work exactly as advertised it is not just a return, it is a warranty. While our written warranty is only for one year, we have never held anyone to a time if there was something wrong with our valve caused by a manufacturing defect. I would warranty a 10 year old Cycle Stop Valve if it was a manufacturing defect. But even just a year written warranty should be plenty of time to decide if it works and you like it or not. Not worried about getting it back once you see how it works. Lol!

Being that a "community" relies on this water system makes it even more important to have a CSV. Your 120 gallon size pressure tank holds about 30 gallons of water. The fact that the tank is going bad is another clue the pump is cycling a lot, and a CSV will be extremely helpful. Even though you have a whole community on this water system, with a CSV added I wouldn't waste money on any larger than a 20 gallon size pressure tank if that one is being replaced. Everything in the pump system will last longer with a CSV, and the whole community will be talking about the much improved water pressure.

 

[Kevin S]

If it doesn't work exactly as advertised it is not just a return, it is a warranty. While our written warranty is only for one year, we have never held anyone to a time if there was something wrong with our valve caused by a manufacturing defect. I would warranty a 10 year old Cycle Stop Valve if it was a manufacturing defect. But even just a year written warranty should be plenty of time to decide if it works and you like it or not. Not worried about getting it back once you see how it works. Lol!

Being that a "community" relies on this water system makes it even more important to have a CSV. Your 120 gallon size pressure tank holds about 30 gallons of water. The fact that the tank is going bad is another clue the pump is cycling a lot, and a CSV will be extremely helpful. Even though you have a whole community on this water system, with a CSV added I wouldn't waste money on any larger than a 20 gallon size pressure tank if that one is being replaced. Everything in the pump system will last longer with a CSV, and the whole community will be talking about the much improved water pressure.

OK. I'm just about ready to pull the trigger. A couple more questions. You know what pump we have so I'm going to assume it will work with this setup. It's not a good picture but can you tell me where the new valve should go and do we get rid of the pressure switch we have now? Also, everything is 1-1/4" will it be okay to just reduce it down to fit the valve. I'm looking at the kit with the 10 gallon pressure tank.

 

[Valveman]

If you get the kit with the 10 gallon tank it will come with a new pressure switch. The Swich can be mounted on the side of the CSV1A as normal. With the 10 gallon tank you will need to use the wall mount brackets and mount the kit to the wall, then just plumb the pump to one side and the outlet pipe to the other.

 

[Kevin S]

If you get the kit with the 10 gallon tank it will come with a new pressure switch. The Swich can be mounted on the side of the CSV1A as normal. With the 10 gallon tank you will need to use the wall mount brackets and mount the kit to the wall, then just plumb the pump to one side and the outlet pipe to the other.

View attachment 40993

OK. You literally did not answer any of my questions. Can we try again?

 

[Valveman]

I did answer your questions. Except that pipe size doesn't matter, just make it fit the PK1A. Maybe this picture will be better. Once you mount the PK1A kit on the wall, all you do is plumb the discharge of the pump to the inlet of the PK1A, and the outlet of the PK1A to the outgoing water line. There also needs to be a good metal, spring loaded check valve between the storage tank and the suction of the pump. There maybe one, but can't see it in the picture.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Pipe size does matter, especially at higher flow rates and this isn’t a single family home.


Don’t reduce the pipe size.

 

[MicEd69]

Pipe size does matter, especially at higher flow rates and this isn’t a single family home.


Don’t reduce the pipe size.

Valveman is just telling Kevin S it is OK to reduce the pipe such that he can install the valve, not that he can reduce the pipe of teh entire system. The valve for this Cycle Stop system comes in one size and will work with the current flows and pressures just fine. The reduction with be just at the valve connection.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Valveman is just telling Kevin S it is OK to reduce the pipe such that he can install the valve, not that he can reduce the pipe of teh entire system. The valve for this Cycle Stop system comes in one size and will work with the current flows and pressures just fine. The reduction with be just at the valve connection.

You can’t choke a 1.25” pipe down to 1” and expect the same volume.

You would also be exceeding flow velocity of the pipe.

You’ll end up with the same problem the other guy has in the thread about his variable pressure pump controller having a plumbing restriction.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Also if cycling is a pump killer then why wouldn’t you install a large tank so the pump wouldn’t have to run as much ?

Makes no common sense using a tiny tank which will cause more cycling than a large tank.

If a small tank will deliver X amount of water before the pump activates then a larger tank will make the pump activate less. Common sense.

It’s cheaper for the system initially to use a small tank but your pump will cycle more. And remember cycling kills pumps.

A cycle stop valve solves the problem for long draws of water. It keeps the pump on……

But on small draws with a smaller tank, the pump will turn on and off more with a tiny bladder tank.

 

[MicEd69]

Also if cycling is a pump killer then why wouldn’t you install a large tank so the pump wouldn’t have to run as much ?

Makes no common sense using a tiny tank which will cause more cycling than a large tank.

If a small tank will deliver X amount of water before the pump activates then a larger tank will make the pump activate less. Common sense.

It’s cheaper for the system initially to use a small tank but your pump will cycle more. And remember cycling kills pumps.

A cycle stop valve solves the problem for long draws of water. It keeps the pump on……

But on small draws with a smaller tank, the pump will turn on and off more with a tiny bladder tank.

Twowaxhack, you apparently are not familiar with control valves or the operation of the Cycle Stop Valve.

It is VERY common for control valves to be smaller than the piping in which they are installed. That allows for better control. The flow rate is through a very short section of pipe and the valve itself. This is standard throughout all industries that use control valves.

The Cycle Stop Valve does not rely on a large tank to supply water to the fixture. It allows the pump to come on when needed to provide water to the user. Overall, the pump will cycle MUCH less over the course of a week of normal usage by a house. And a smaller tank also allows for better pressure control.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Twowaxhack, you apparently are not familiar with control valves or the operation of the Cycle Stop Valve.

It is VERY common for control valves to be smaller than the piping in which they are installed. That allows for better control. The flow rate is through a very short section of pipe and the valve itself. This is standard throughout all industries that use control valves.

The Cycle Stop Valve does not rely on a large tank to supply water to the fixture. It allows the pump to come on when needed to provide water to the user. Overall, the pump will cycle MUCH less over the course of a week of normal usage by a house. And a smaller tank also allows for better pressure control.

I’m not sure what you’re arguing ?

You think a 1” valve can supply the water of a 1.25” valve ?

A smaller tank makes the pump kick on more often. Facts.
Even with a cycle stop valve.

If my bladder tank holds 12 gallons of water that’s 7 toilet flushes compared to 1 maybe 2 with a small tank before the pump kicks on and subsequently back off.

The cycle stop valve doesn’t protect you from many many small draws if you have a tiny tank.

And with multiple family housing it’s more likely to happen in this exact original posters situation.

People with residential wells set their pressure too low. For great performance you want at least 70 psi. This overcomes restrictive pex and all the water treatment equipment and check valves in a modern system.

That 60/40 is crap from the beginning of time. Things are built different now in plumbing systems. Much more restrictive.

 

[MicEd69]

The valve in question is a control valve, not a block valve. I am saying that a 1" control valve will control better than a 1 1/4" control valve.

And note what Kevin S said about the "multiple family housing statement". "5 structures each with showers, toilets, sinks, etc. There's also a half-acre garden which pretty much gets watered every day for most of the day."

This is what a Cycle Stop Valve is made for. For "most of the day", a standard pressure switch-controlled pump would be cycling, well "most of the day".