Help with plumbing...

Plumbing Forums

Help Support Plumbing Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

John73

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2018
Messages
7
Reaction score
2
Location
Fort Loudon
I'm trying to figure out how I can fix this mess that was done in my house before I bought it..I have sewer gas smell coming into my home from this.... anyone who can help me with this please..when we flush toilet upstairs the 2 sinks in the bathroom gurgle.. Also the vent pipe is cut off in the crawl space and I installed a studor on it...
I have several pictures...
Thanks
John
 

Attachments

  • 20181228_204035.jpg
    20181228_204035.jpg
    782.1 KB · Views: 28
  • 20181227_151444.jpg
    20181227_151444.jpg
    936.1 KB · Views: 29
  • 20181228_171003.jpg
    20181228_171003.jpg
    2.3 MB · Views: 32
  • 20181228_171016.jpg
    20181228_171016.jpg
    2.5 MB · Views: 29
  • 20181228_193702.jpg
    20181228_193702.jpg
    810.4 KB · Views: 28
  • 20181227_151456.jpg
    20181227_151456.jpg
    884.3 KB · Views: 22
Last edited:
The issue is that there are no vents to allow air to get in to prevent a vacuum. That means the water is being sucked out of the traps and allowing sewer gases up.
The PVC sink traps are all S-traps which allows the water to be siphoned out. The way it should be configured is to have P-traps. Instead of having another bend and going down, the line should run horizontal for at least 3" (sloped downward at 1/4" per foot) where it will have a trap adapter to go from slip joint to solvent weld and connect to a sanitary tee with the swoop going downward. From the top of the sanitary tee a pipe would go up (usually through the wall) and out through the roof or it would connect with another plumbing vent (if any exist). Alternatively, if you can't get an actual vent and if your local code permits, you could use an Air Admittance Valve (AAV-- also called studor vent or cheater valve). An AAV must extend at least 4" above the trap.

The washing machine standpipe is also all wrong and is not vented. It doesn't even have a trap at all, which means it can allow sewer gases up. The washing washing machine's P-trap should be between 6" to 18" above the floor and should extend between 18" to 30" upward for UPC and 18" to 42" upward for IPC. Like the sink's P-trap, it needs to have a trap arm that slopes downward at 1/4" per ft but it must be at least 4" long before reaching a vent. The vent pipe should go out through the roof. Not sure if you can use an AAV-- I don't think it is recommended, but if you do go with one, get one that has high DFU allowance. A washing machine generally has 3 to 6 DFU rating (drain fixture unit rating is based on the gallons per minute- gpm- draining capacity).

The metal pipe that goes in to dirt-- is that under a shower or tub? It looks sort of like a tub shoe, but it would be for one without an overflow. If it is under a tub or shower, it would need to be vented. Like the sink & washing machine, it would need a P-trap & vent. The vent could be done to the side of the shower or behind and then routed back to wherever it goes underground. Horizontal to vertical connections should be done with a sanitary tee while vertical to horizontal or horizontal to horizontal should be done with a wye.

P-trapdiagrams.jpg

Example of washing machine setup
tumblr_ow2ejmfLxk1uwberno1_1280.png

TL: DR ? You need proper P-traps and vents!
 
What Zane said is correct. But I'm guessing your not going to take on the project replumbing your whole house at this point.
Studor vents will work in certain situations, but should not be installed in your crawl space below all the fixtures it is serving. None the less without seeing it, it is possible that it may still be able to provide venting to the fixtures to an extent, depending on where it was installed.
The easiest thing to do would be to see if the studor vent is bad or not? The way it is plumbed it may have very well gotten plugged up due to a sewer back up or such in the past, and is not longer allowing air to be pulled into the system. For a make shift repair the easiest thing to do is go buy a new studor vent and replace the one that is in there now. Typically they are just threaded into a female adapter and cost $15-$25. So you can just unscrew the old one and screw the new one in it's place. Usually the ones I've seen at home improvement stores are able to handle 24 fixture units. Which without seeing your house would most likely be be sufficient given your situation. Some studor vents have 1.5" male threads and some have 2" male threads. So make sure you take note of what yours currently has so you can get the right size to replace your old one. I would recommend putting some megalock pipe dope or plumbers grease on to the threads of the new one to make it easier to screw in place. Then see if your traps are still gurgling after that. It may fix your issue for now if that is the problem.. ( you could test your old one if you really wanted to by holding it up right and putting it up to your mouth and blowing into it and see if it blocks the air, and then sucking through it to see if it is allowing air to be pulled through it, but i would not want to put it up to my mouth after being attached to your sewer line).
Either way the best solution in the long-term would be to have a plumber look at it and modify your plumbing in a manner that will allow your fixtures be properly vented.
 
Last edited:
I would cut the pvc down low, and offset using a 45 degree fitting to the back of the cabinet
use another 45 to straighten up
then install a tee, and a ptrap on the sink
on top of the tee that was installed, install a auto vent as high as you can to the bottom of the counter top

little sketch to make it somewhat easier to understand

f up no vent1.jpg

why offset to the back of cabinet?
so you have room to install ptrap and the auto vent
little tip to make it easier. install the p trap first
with it installled you will visually see where the tee needs to be located
the long J bend on the ptrap can be cut shorter
 
WOW!!!
cut the pipe 2'' from the 90. with a 24'' or 36'' pipe wrench, turn the 90 looking straight up
connect onto the pipe using a pro flex 3000-22 shielded no hub transition band
https://www.fernco.com/plumbing/shielded-couplings/proflex-couplings

then cut a 2'' long 2'' pvc pipe. insert in band
connect a 2'' tee then a 3' piece of 2'' pipe with a 2'' clean out tee, then 12 '' of 2'' pipe then a auto vent
on the lower tee outlet install a desired length of 2'' pipe then a 2'' ptrap with a 30'' stand pipe
funky sketch belowmore f up no vent crap.jpg 6.5x552 (1).JPG
 
What Zane said is correct. But I'm guessing your not going to take on the project replumbing your whole house at this point.
Studor vents will work in certain situations, but should not be installed in your crawl space below all the fixtures it is serving. None the less without seeing it, it is possible that it may still be able to provide venting to the fixtures to an extent, depending on where it was installed.
The easiest thing to do would be to see if the studor vent is bad or not? The way it is plumbed it may have very well gotten plugged up due to a sewer back up or such in the past, and is not longer allowing air to be pulled into the system. For a make shift repair the easiest thing to do is go buy a new studor vent and replace the one that is in there now. Typically they are just threaded into a female adapter and cost $15-$25. So you can just unscrew the old one and screw the new one in it's place. Usually the ones I've seen at home improvement stores are able to handle 24 fixture units. Which without seeing your house would most likely be be sufficient given your situation. Some studor vents have 1.5" male threads and some have 2" male threads. So make sure you take note of what yours currently has so you can get the right size to replace your old one. I would recommend putting some megalock pipe dope or plumbers grease on to the threads of the new one to make it easier to screw in place. Then see if your traps are still gurgling after that. It may fix your issue for now if that is the problem.. ( you could test your old one if you really wanted to by holding it up right and putting it up to your mouth and blowing into it and see if it blocks the air, and then sucking through it to see if it is allowing air to be pulled through it, but i would not want to put it up to my mouth after being attached to your sewer line).
Either way the best solution in the long-term would be to have a plumber look at it and modify your plumbing in a manner that will allow your fixtures be properly vented.
I just put the studor on the vent pipe the other day...The gurgling is still happening it's in the sinks in the bathroom upstairs.
I'm no plumber but I'm going to have to try and fix it myself..I'm on disability and can't afford alot to fix stuff.. I have several more pictures of the plumbing issues...My wife and I bought this home as is and didn't have it inspected...Yes a major no no...I have had issues with hot water heater too..I couldn't get it too drain out so I put elements in with water still in..Keep getting error code So5 it's a whirlpool energy efficient one..I can upload more pictures if you would like to see the rest of the pipe mess.
Thanks for the help..
John
 
More pictures of this plumbing mess..I don't know if this guy who did this knew what he was doing...
 

Attachments

  • 20181230_121444.jpg
    20181230_121444.jpg
    841.6 KB · Views: 13
  • 20181230_110407.jpg
    20181230_110407.jpg
    867 KB · Views: 15
  • 20181230_110400.jpg
    20181230_110400.jpg
    820.3 KB · Views: 15
  • 20181230_110421.jpg
    20181230_110421.jpg
    818.6 KB · Views: 16
  • 20181230_110414.jpg
    20181230_110414.jpg
    922.8 KB · Views: 14
  • 20181230_110444.jpg
    20181230_110444.jpg
    918 KB · Views: 15
  • 20181230_110439.jpg
    20181230_110439.jpg
    861.1 KB · Views: 13
  • 20181230_121432.jpg
    20181230_121432.jpg
    1.5 MB · Views: 14
Obviously he didn't know anything about venting requirements.
If for nothing else but your own information, you should google the purpose and locations of vents for plumbing traps. That way you'll have an idea of what's going on and why, when someone here shows you what to do in certain situations.
 
It looks like you have a LOT of work ahead of you. The first priority is to make sure you don't have sewer gases coming up in to your home as they are dangerous. Aside from the stench, the methane can kill you or at the very least make you very ill. If you are feeling ill or more tired than usual, it could be from the sewer gases. I would highly recommend fixing the washing machine standpipe asap or at least capping it off when not in use until you can fix it properly. After flushing toilets & hearing gurgling noises, run water slowly in all of the sinks to fill up the traps (I have to do this in my home bc my sinks are S-trapped). The shower (if that is a shower) needs to have a plug or something put in the drain when not in use to keep sewer gases from coming up).

S-traps used to be allowed in older homes before the plumbing code improved & the role of air pressure was better understood. Some stores still sell S-traps even though they are not allowed by code.

I will point out that AAVs might not work if you don't have any actual vents going out through the roof. You really do need at least one atmospheric vent. You need to have both positive and negative air pressure- air behind and ahead of the water to allow it to flow or it creates a vacuum. AAVs only work for the negative air pressure. There is something called a PAPA for positive air pressure. The easiest way to see how the vacuum works is to take a straw and put it in liquid, put your thumb on the top to block airflow and lift it up. The water stays in the straw until you remove your thumb- that's because air can't get behind the water to allow it to flow down. Drains work by gravity but vacuums can interfere with that.

It would also help if you could try to provide drawings/diagrams of the layout and where the plumbing is in relation to the house/rooms etc. You can get a free version of Google Sketchup that lets you do precise measurements to draw out the floorplan and you can use the push/pull tool to raise the walls & make it 3D. You can screenshot it and put it in MSPaint to draw lines where the plumbing is if the 3D model stuff is too much of a pain to use.

It's going to take time and $, but people here are friendly & will do their best to help you through it. If you find yourself unsure about something, don't hesitate to ask. Don't push yourself too hard and you can tackle things a little at a time so you don't get overwhelmed.

While you are at it, I would also recommend that you take a look at your electrical to see what your wiring situations is so you don't end up with an electrical fire. There is a sister site to this one called houserepairtalk where you can get answers to things about roofing, structure, electrical, etc. Many of the people here also post over there.

It looks like you live in Pennsylvania? I believe you'd be under IPC (if that helps any while looking up code).
 
WOW!!!
cut the pipe 2'' from the 90. with a 24'' or 36'' pipe wrench, turn the 90 looking straight up
connect onto the pipe using a pro flex 3000-22 shielded no hub transition band
https://www.fernco.com/plumbing/shielded-couplings/proflex-couplings

then cut a 2'' long 2'' pvc pipe. insert in band
connect a 2'' tee then a 3' piece of 2'' pipe with a 2'' clean out tee, then 12 '' of 2'' pipe then a auto vent
on the lower tee outlet install a desired length of 2'' pipe then a 2'' ptrap with a 30'' stand pipe
funky sketch belowView attachment 19444 View attachment 19445
Thanks for your knowledge..it's a pvc pipe and it runs into the same drain the sink goes in the bathroom downstairs....
 
It looks like you have a LOT of work ahead of you. The first priority is to make sure you don't have sewer gases coming up in to your home as they are dangerous. Aside from the stench, the methane can kill you or at the very least make you very ill. If you are feeling ill or more tired than usual, it could be from the sewer gases. I would highly recommend fixing the washing machine standpipe asap or at least capping it off when not in use until you can fix it properly. After flushing toilets & hearing gurgling noises, run water slowly in all of the sinks to fill up the traps (I have to do this in my home bc my sinks are S-trapped). The shower (if that is a shower) needs to have a plug or something put in the drain when not in use to keep sewer gases from coming up).

S-traps used to be allowed in older homes before the plumbing code improved & the role of air pressure was better understood. Some stores still sell S-traps even though they are not allowed by code.

I will point out that AAVs might not work if you don't have any actual vents going out through the roof. You really do need at least one atmospheric vent. You need to have both positive and negative air pressure- air behind and ahead of the water to allow it to flow or it creates a vacuum. AAVs only work for the negative air pressure. There is something called a PAPA for positive air pressure. The easiest way to see how the vacuum works is to take a straw and put it in liquid, put your thumb on the top to block airflow and lift it up. The water stays in the straw until you remove your thumb- that's because air can't get behind the water to allow it to flow down. Drains work by gravity but vacuums can interfere with that.

It would also help if you could try to provide drawings/diagrams of the layout and where the plumbing is in relation to the house/rooms etc. You can get a free version of Google Sketchup that lets you do precise measurements to draw out the floorplan and you can use the push/pull tool to raise the walls & make it 3D. You can screenshot it and put it in MSPaint to draw lines where the plumbing is if the 3D model stuff is too much of a pain to use.

It's going to take time and $, but people here are friendly & will do their best to help you through it. If you find yourself unsure about something, don't hesitate to ask. Don't push yourself too hard and you can tackle things a little at a time so you don't get overwhelmed.

While you are at it, I would also recommend that you take a look at your electrical to see what your wiring situations is so you don't end up with an electrical fire. There is a sister site to this one called houserepairtalk where you can get answers to things about roofing, structure, electrical, etc. Many of the people here also post over there.

It looks like you live in Pennsylvania? I believe you'd be under IPC (if that helps any while looking up code).
This Is the main issues I believe...The one which it goes from the tub right into the ground....How would I run a p traps in there??
 

Attachments

  • 20181228_103538.jpg
    20181228_103538.jpg
    2.2 MB · Views: 12
Obviously he didn't know anything about venting requirements.
If for nothing else but your own information, you should google the purpose and locations of vents for plumbing traps. That way you'll have an idea of what's going on and why, when someone here shows you what to do in certain situations.
Thanks for your advice...I do understand the venting purposes...Just trying to figure out what to connect...
 
This Is the main issues I believe...The one which it goes from the tub right into the ground....How would I run a p traps in there??
If you are getting smells from this one, I'd say keep tub plugged between uses, which you probably have already done. Then when you feel energetic, dig it up.
 
This Is the main issues I believe...The one which it goes from the tub right into the ground....How would I run a p traps in there??

get you a small garden shovel for potted plants and dig it up. after you get the piping expposed
post back. I will guide you along
potting-soil-shovel-7-lg.jpg
 
you can not use aav's on everything in the house
by code you need a minimum of 1= 2'' vent out the roof of your house
There is a vent pipe..it's only 1 1/2 inch...it in attic...I'm going to cut a hole in roof tomorrow and run it outside...I was recommended to run it up 24 inches ...so I don't get any smell whenever I'm outside in
Summer time...
 
There is a vent pipe..it's only 1 1/2 inch...it in attic...I'm going to cut a hole in roof tomorrow and run it outside...I was recommended to run it up 24 inches ...so I don't get any smell whenever I'm outside in
Summer time...
Vent pipes are like opinions... Everybody has one, and they all stink.

EDIT:...@John73...

Check your applicable plumbing code.
You may be required to increase that vent to atmosphere, to 2" or 3" inches, whatever may be required. This can be done in the attic, before penetrating the roof.
 
Last edited:
I agree that increasing the vet pipe size to 2" before it goes out through the roof is a good idea. If the vent pipe was terminating inside the attic then it was just releasing more sewer gases in to the home.

If your existing tub does not have an overflow, I would recommend replacing it with a model that had an overflow (at least at some point). That way you can have more access to fixing the drain for it. On tubs with overflow, there is a "shoe" underneath the tub drain that carries the waste back toward the end with the overflow. The overflow has a pipe going straight down and they merge with a sanitary tee. The trap is usually put below that, and the trap arm extends to a vent.

Keep in mind any studor vents you use need to be exposed to open air. If you put any inside walls, you need to have a vented access panel (one with grilles). I believe Oatey makes specific kits for putting them inside of walls. I can look up some links for you and provide them if you're interested.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top