Condensation on Water Heater Cold Nipple

[alfuzzy]

I did consider the basement air could be pretty humid (great suggestion). Since we have a lot of items stored in the basement & don't want them to get moldy/smelly...we have two dehumidifiers running all year long that I empty every 1-2 days (or when full).

Basement is also semi-finished (has poured concrete on the floor...but not super thick)...has dry finished walls (drywall)...has baseboard heat...and did have carpeting (but we removed it since the previous owners cat's pissed eveywhere & it stank). Damn cats!

Basement isn't super dry...but a lot better than it would be without the 2 dehumidifiers. I'm thinking what "Jim Handy" suggested above is very likely the source of the moisture/condensation (burning natural gas creates moisture)...and don't have the best draft in the flue.

The condensation issue on the cold nipple definitely only starts when the gas burner kicks on & stops when the gas burner kicks off. The cold nipple is 100% dry all other times. If basement humidity was the issue...I'm thinking the water heater nipples would be "wet with condensate" all/most of the time.

Thanks

 

[Jeff Handy]

Another reason why I like braided lines the last 18". You will never know if it is just a loose connection with the soldered lines attached like that.

I “liked” this answer, then I remembered that you have to have metal when you are attaching to a gas heater.
Maybe stainless flex lines that were bent away from the flue would work?

 

[alfuzzy]

I would have loved to have been able to use flex lines of some sort (either the braided or copper type)...rather than soldering. But I just didn't have the clearance to use them (even the 12" flex hoses)...or at least without needing to do a lot of extra work relocating the shut off valves.

Pictures are always a lot of fun. Here's more of an overview of what I had to deal with in my 105 year old home with low basement ceiling:

* 20" from bottom of floor joists to top of water heater nipple.
* 11" from bottom of shut-off valves to top of water heater nipple.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I wouldn’t have piped it into the chimney without a pipe liner inside the chimney.

You’re probably getting spillage at the diverter causing the condensation.

 

[alfuzzy]

I wouldn’t have piped it into the chimney without a pipe liner inside the chimney.

You’re probably getting spillage at the diverter causing the condensation.

Not sure I follow 100%. Can you explain what sort of "pipe liner" you mean (where would this be installed)...and what you mean by "spillage at the diverter"?

By the way...this setup is exactly the way it was for the old water heater. I made no modifications.

Thanks

 

[Twowaxhack]

Read this article.

https://www.askthebuilder.com/water-heater-venting/

 

[alfuzzy]

I wouldn’t have piped it into the chimney without a pipe liner inside the chimney.

I read the many parts in the article you linked...not exactly sure what part you're referring to. My hot water gas furnace exhaust is also piped into the same chimney...no issues.

You’re probably getting spillage at the diverter causing the condensation.

Still not sure what this statement means "spillage at the diverter". What part is the "diverter"?

Thanks

 

[Twowaxhack]

Check these two links out.

Water Heater Backdrafting, Part 1 of 2: Why it Matters and What to Look For

 

[alfuzzy]

Thanks again for the links.

The "Water Heater Backdrafting" link was the most helpful.

Yes this issue was already mentioned/discussed in this thread (starting with post #3...and a bunch of other posts following).

I already mentioned that the draft in the flue pipe is probably not the best...and agreed with member "Jeff Handy" that the moisture/condensation is probably coming from the water heater gas burner exhaust gases (causing the condensation on the cold water heater nipple).

I also mentioned that I have a CO (carbon monoxide) detector right next to the room where the home natural gas hot water furnace & natural gas hot water heater are located...and the CO detector has never gone off.

The flue setup on the gas water heater has been this way for at least 10 years without an issue. Of course I will investigate how I can improve things now that I know the source of the issue.

Thanks

 

[Twowaxhack]

Ok great

 

[BlueSkyHigh]

Your soldering looks better than most.

"Sweat" soldering at that. Very nice work!

 

[alfuzzy]

Thanks. Definitely room for improvement!

 

[Twowaxhack]

I wish manufacturers would up there nipple game

Those steel heat trap nipples are complete crap.

 

[alfuzzy]

I was kind of disappointed the replacement water heater I got came with a plastic drain valve. I didn't think I was buying a "cheapie" water heater (maybe I was)...or maybe many models come with the plastic drain valves these days. I guess I could replace it with brass at some point.

 

[Twowaxhack]

I was kind of disappointed the replacement water heater I got came with a plastic drain valve. I didn't think I was buying a "cheapie" water heater (maybe I was)...or maybe many models come with the plastic drain valves these days. I guess I could replace it with brass at some point.

Box store water heaters usually have plastic drains.

A plumbing supply house would have that same heater basically except the drain would be brass.

Plastic drains on water heater have been around for a long time.

The heat trap nipples were added to meet the governments energy codes. The manufacturer would rather not supply them at all.

 

[alfuzzy]

The heat trap nipples were added to meet the governments energy codes. The manufacturer would rather not supply them at all.

Are we talking the steel nipples with the plastic dielectric inserts at the cold/hot inlets at the top of the water heater?

If so...what do they do in terms of government energy codes (how do they save energy)? And if these things aren't very good...what's a better product to use instead of the nipples?

Thanks

 

[Twowaxhack]

For example, Rheem uses these on some water heaters.
https://parts.rheem.com/product/RPD-SP20003
They have a little rubber flapper that is suppose to keep heat in the tank
Look how thin the zinc plated steel nipples are.


I remove them and use brass or stainless. It can be a controversial subject for various reasons. Water composition plays a role and the PH of the water.

 

[alfuzzy]

They have a little rubber flapper that is suppose to keep heat in the tank

My new water heater is a Rheem...I'm sure it has exactly the same nipples you linked.

Yes I saw the little rubber flapper at the top of the dip tube & was wondering what it was for...now I know.

I figured you would say use brass (or stainless) nipples instead. I agree...I probably should have replaced the stock steel nipples with brass. I was so wrapped up getting the darn thing installed (went about 2 weeks with the old water heater leaking & had to empty a drip tray about every 4 hours)...that all I wanted to do was get the new water heater installed ASAP.

If I was to do things all over (knowing what I know now)...here's what I'd probably do differently:

1. Replace the stock steel Rheem nipples with brass.
2. Replace the stock plastic drain valve with a brass drain valve (still easy to do...just got to drain the tank).
3. Install copper union fittings in each of the water lines.

With my basement ceiling so low...I don't think I can properly inspect or replace the anode rod (as necessary in the future)...with the water heater in the installed vertical position. I think I may need to disconnect the water lines (and gas line)...so I can tilt the tank forward in order to get the anode rod out for inspection/replacement.

 

[Jeff Handy]

No need to tip the heater for anode rod check.
Just wait a few years, then remove the old rod, which is usually tight AF, bust it up as it comes out, maintain a bite on what is still inside the heater with vice grips or method of choice.
Then install a new flexible anode rod, short lengths of rod connected by short lengths of metal cable, to be able to sneak into short overhead spaces.

 

[alfuzzy]

No need to tip the heater for anode rod check.
Just wait a few years, then remove the old rod, which is usually tight AF, bust it up as it comes out, maintain a bite on what is still inside the heater with vice grips or method of choice.
Then install a new flexible anode rod, short lengths of rod connected by short lengths of metal cable, to be able to sneak into short overhead spaces.

Good deal sounds good. I figured the existing anode rod was rigid...but didn't know how far I needed to remove the anode rod to inspect it properly (I think I have about 20-25 inches clearance till I hit the ceiling)...I thought the stock anode rod was longer & rigid.

I have seen the "flexible" replacement anode rods you mentioned. If I can get the old one out no problem like you described (when it's ready to be replaced)...getting in the flexible replacement should be doable.

Thanks