Code for hose bibbs

Discussion in 'Plumbing Building Code' started by edee_em, May 20, 2019.

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  1. May 20, 2019 #1

    edee_em

    edee_em

    edee_em

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    I had a frost free hose bib in the garage fail and I need to replace it. I noticed the hose bib in the back yard isn't frost free and this got me thinking. Do I need to use a frost-free bib? I understand a non frost free bib requires a shutoff with a waste and that is what's on the back yard bib. If I repeat for the garage bib is that okay? PS: located in Ontario, Canada.
     
  2. May 20, 2019 #2

    Geofd

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    I have one of each myself.....shut off the water open the silcock and the water should drain out.....just to be safe use a small wet vac then you will know all the water is drained
     
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  3. May 20, 2019 #3

    Geofd

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    all of this is if you have valves isolating both silcocks
     
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  4. May 21, 2019 #4

    Diehard

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    In general, I doubt there is a code requirement for non-freeze Hoes Bibs/Silcocks but I believe that they now require Vacuum Breakers on them.
    They pretty much are all combination frost proof with vacuum breakers now-a-days.
    Either type should be installed sloping out but is a requirement for the frost proof, since that is left on all winter.
    And of course, it's no longer frost proof if you don't disconnect the hose from it.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  5. May 21, 2019 #5

    edee_em

    edee_em

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    Thanks for the reply Diehard. Funny you should say they should be installed sloping out. When I took the old one out of my place, the original installer must have left his drill at home because instead of drilling another hole in the next joist (plumbing is running perpendicular to joists) he put in 2 90's to get the pipe below the next joist, a total drop of around 4-5". It certainly wasn't sloped to the outside! This does lead to a question: if we have a shutoff with a waste/drain, wouldn't it be better to have it slope back into the house towards the shutoff to drain more completely? Or is this a situation where the rule is for the people who don't turn off water in winters? Then again, what difference does the slope make when the pipe bursts from freezing?
     
  6. May 21, 2019 #6

    Diehard

    Diehard

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    Yes, when you don't have a freeze proof, it can be sloped either way. Difference being of course when sloped in, you must drain it using a stop & waste.
    If sloped out, you can get by not draining from the stop & waste. It would drain out, since the silcock should be left open regardless of the slope direction.

    Myself, I have frost proof but leave the hose connected by using a 2-way hose connector. I use one connection for the hose and the other is left open to allow the silcock to drain. I'm too lazy to disconnect and reconnect the hose every time I want to use it in the colder weather.
    91xlhhYAIIL._AC_UL480_QL65_.jpg
     
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  7. May 21, 2019 #7

    frodo

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    vacuum_bbbreaker.png
    Lets go over both the frost proof hose bib and the vacuum breaker
    The frost proof hb must lean towards the outside,
    inside the FPHB is a bib washer that is inside the heated space of your home
    when the FPHB is turned off, the water needs to drain out of that pipe into the yard.
    If, the FPHB is not leaning so it may drain, the water trapped inside will freeze and burst the pipe

    That said
    The vacuum breaker is a devilish little device that will cause your hose bib to freeze
    see the drawing of the device.
    The job of the VB is to provide an air break between the hb and the hose
    in order to do this, it actually traps water inside your hose bib.when the spring closes off the water path to open an air path fp_hb.png View attachment 20876

    This does not pertain to combination FPHB vacuum breakers fixtures
    They operate differently, and still need to be tilted to drain
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
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  8. May 21, 2019 #8

    edee_em

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    Thanks Frodo and Diehard. Very informative posts and leads me to lean towards replacement with a non frost free bib. Frodo, I didn't see any argument from you about sloping non frost free bib back into the house towards the shutoff. Thought?
     
  9. May 21, 2019 #9

    frodo

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    when you close the isolation valve in the crawl space, and open the drain
    you also need to open the hose bib to allow a vent so the pipe will drain.

    so,,it does not matter

    why do you need to open the hb for a vent?
    put a straw in a glass of water, put your finger over the end of the straw and pull the straw
    out of the glass. no water runs out of the straw
    take your finger off the straw, [vent] and your pants get wet
     
  10. May 21, 2019 #10

    Diehard

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    You sure make things confusing.
    No question about which way a frost proof unit must slope.
    Not sure why the talk about all that other stuff.

    I hate to add to the confusion but...
    The frost proof design and the vacuum break design have two independent functions.
    The frost proof design simply self drains when SHUT OFF and requires that no hose be attached.
    The vacuum breaker design is to prevent back siphonage, which of course can only happen when the hose bib is left OPEN and typically(but not necessarily) when there's a hose attached.
     
  11. May 21, 2019 #11

    Diehard

    Diehard

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    Yeah...try that with a 1/2" pipe on the horizontal. ;)
     
  12. May 21, 2019 #12

    frodo

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    There are 2 different types of FPHB
    one has a VB the other does not,,,My post was discussing the FBHB that does not have a vacuum breaker.
    the 2nd part of my post is discussing a simple screw on VB

    sill_cock1.png
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  13. May 22, 2019 #13

    Diehard

    Diehard

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    Doesn't the typical screw on vacuum breaker have a little thing that is suppose to be pressed for that reason?
    611918009032.jpg

    Oh yeah, FYI.. siphonage can be spelled either way. with an "i" or a "y". But thanks. I'll do the same for you some time.:D
     
  14. May 22, 2019 #14

    frodo

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    You mean that little screw that is never pushed by anyone?
    or
    The little screw that 99.9999% of the population has no idea what it is
     
  15. May 22, 2019 #15

    Diehard

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    Yeah and by the same people that are suppose to know enough to open faucet to drain out to prevent freezing.
    They should do away with that design to begin with. But that's another subject.
     

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