Cause of pinhole leak

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Back to your grounding Bock heaters always recommend that a #4 jumper be installed on the hot and cold above the heater
 
It’s possible that the anode rod was removed and replaced with the TPR valve. Most TPR come from the side, not the top—but maybe yours is different. Go to the manufacturers website and find the manual and take a look for the detail.
 
Mitchell-DIY-Guy said:
It’s possible that the anode rod was removed and replaced with the TPR valve. Most TPR come from the side, not the top—but maybe yours is different. Go to the manufacturers website and find the manual and take a look for the detail.
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What would be the point of this? Isn't it a non-negotiable to have an anode rode in glass lined water heaters?

Should I be concerned my anode rode was removed?

Note that I do live in an area with hard water. So I'm wondering if an anode rod is not as necessary in my situation since the water is hard and not soft.
 
If you hang around here long enough, you see ALL KINDS of bizarro things, an awful lot of it done by people who do it for a living. But to your point, no there would be no reason to remove the anode rod from a water heater, unless you were a complete blithering idiot who has no business being around tools much less plumbing.

The hardness or softness of the water isn't that important. Corrosion WILL happen in a tank, and the purpose of an anode rod is to provide something to corrode; it's actually called a SACRIFICIAL anode. Not only are they in water tanks, but you have them sitting on boat motors (the part in the water of course), as well as sometimes on steel structures such as high tension poles; they bury the sacrificial anode nearby and connect to the steel structure by a cable.

Let me suggest again--go to the water heater, get the model number, go the manufacturer website, and download the technical data which would indicate where the TPR should go and where the anode rod is. If it's unclear, call their tech support.
 
Mitchell-DIY-Guy said:
If you hang around here long enough, you see ALL KINDS of bizarro things, an awful lot of it done by people who do it for a living. But to your point, no there would be no reason to remove the anode rod from a water heater, unless you were a complete blithering idiot who has no business being around tools much less plumbing.

The hardness or softness of the water isn't that important. Corrosion WILL happen in a tank, and the purpose of an anode rod is to provide something to corrode; it's actually called a SACRIFICIAL anode. Not only are they in water tanks, but you have them sitting on boat motors (the part in the water of course), as well as sometimes on steel structures such as high tension poles; they bury the sacrificial anode nearby and connect to the steel structure by a cable.

Let me suggest again--go to the water heater, get the model number, go the manufacturer website, and download the technical data which would indicate where the TPR should go and where the anode rod is. If it's unclear, call their tech support.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I've got the manual and it suggests the anode rode is under the TRP valve. Will call manufacturer tech support.
 
Usually the anode rod is hanging from a male plug by itself, or is hanging from one of the nipples.
But I am curious now to see if yours really is under the TPR valve.
 
That is, in a word, weird. Now, the anode rod ONLY when new, and only from the OEM, might be an aluminum tube, or magnesium tube. If that is the case it would have a much different fitting on the top that would accommodate the TPR, unless it's a proprietary TPR. In any case, if you wanted to change the anode rod, you'd probably be SOL as you have to get replacement models as there is rarely any headroom in which to insert a new one.

I believe our creator intended the anode rod to be inserted by itself into the top and the TPR out the side. Period. Anything else is heresy. LOL.

The last one I bought as a replacement was a series of magnesium rods cast around a stainless steel rope, all fitted to the plug; not exact but similar to this...
1607980099104.png
 
Mitchell-DIY-Guy said:
That is, in a word, weird. Now, the anode rod ONLY when new, and only from the OEM, might be an aluminum tube, or magnesium tube. If that is the case it would have a much different fitting on the top that would accommodate the TPR, unless it's a proprietary TPR. In any case, if you wanted to change the anode rod, you'd probably be SOL as you have to get replacement models as there is rarely any headroom in which to insert a new one.

I believe our creator intended the anode rod to be inserted by itself into the top and the TPR out the side. Period. Anything else is heresy. LOL.

The last one I bought as a replacement was a series of magnesium rods cast around a stainless steel rope, all fitted to the plug; not exact but similar to this...
View attachment 26774
Click to expand...

Yes, I thought it was strange as well. If true, I don't even understand the mechanics of it to be honest, esp if there is a male threaded plug on top of every anode rod. Water can't exit through both an anode rod with a male threaded cap and a TRP valve...

I had already bought a collapsible anode rod like you pictured above last fall when I was going to do a routine hot water heater maintenance check and ran into this problem and gave up. I thought "How can this water heater not have an anode rod?"
 
FYI : T&P valves were often located on top of heaters.

The anode rod is sometimes under a plastic plug on top of the heater. So you wouldn’t see a pipe plug unless you popped the plastic plug out.,

Hot water will not wash away acid flux that’s ran down the pipe while soldering. This usually occurs at the bottom of headers where the flux runs down the pipe as it’s heated and settles in little pools at the bottom of the assembly.,

I’ve removed these pipes and then cut them in half lengthwise. You can clearly see where the flux ran down inside the pipe and slowly ate it away.,

In fact the hot water is worse because the heat accelerates the corrosion.,

This contributes to hot water leaks under the slab. I find them below manifolds all the time.,

Low Ph acid water is a pinhole machine.

If this is the case the entire pipe will be thin in spots and you’ll get pinholes. This is accelerated around fittings where turbulence occurs during flow.

Electrolysis can be from two different points of ground “ talking “ to each other. Salty ground encourages this. If you had two ground rods on opposite sides of a home with copper pipe running close to both could set the stage., All homes with at least 20’ of copper in the ground for its water piping also has to be grounded to the electrical system.

All these grounds start talking. Especially if something is malfunctioning and sending some stray current to ground.

High flow and undersized pipe can cause pinholes as well. This causes high velocity and turbulence in the pipe.

Salty soil can also eat copper just from being in the ground.

So pinholes are a result of the erosion of the pipe in one form or another.

Usually when I see electrolysis you’ll see little green balls on the inside of the pipe.......a lot of them.

That’s all I got
 
The reason you have pin hole leaks where flux is present is because flux is an acid, It is formulated to literally eat away copper, that is how it cleans, Code calls for all joints to be wiped with a damp cloth after soldering and the piping to be disinfected after construction
Harris Industries certifies that flux can be eradicated from the system using the method put forth in the code book
flush at 3 gpm then solution of chlorine is introduced at no les than 50 parts per million , filled with water, stand for 24 hours
OR 200 ppm filled with water and stand for 3 hours
flushed at 3 gpm till clear

Hot water does not accelerate the corrosion. it liquifies the flux whereas cold water does not and allows the flux to spread into a wider area
 
frodo said:
The reason you have pin hole leaks where flux is present is because flux is an acid, It is formulated to literally eat away copper, that is how it cleans, Code calls for all joints to be wiped with a damp cloth after soldering and the piping to be disinfected after construction
Harris Industries certifies that flux can be eradicated from the system using the method put forth in the code book
flush at 3 gpm then solution of chlorine is introduced at no les than 50 parts per million , filled with water, stand for 24 hours
OR 200 ppm filled with water and stand for 3 hours
flushed at 3 gpm till clear

Hot water does not accelerate the corrosion. it liquifies the flux whereas cold water does not and allows the flux to spread into a wider area
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Hot water does accelerate pipe corrosion in a corrosive condition. Flux being the catalyst . Hot water makes every problem worse.....

That’s just the way it is....
 
I don't remember seeing where the OP stated that their water was corrosive. Maybe I missed something.
 
SHEPLMBR said:
I don't remember seeing where the OP stated that their water was corrosive. Maybe I missed something.
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The flux is corrosive......

Technically all water is corrosive.
 
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I will say this about Harris Industries.

I do not agree that their cleaning procedure is 100% effective for the removal of excess acid flux used to assemble a copper plumbing system, if that’s what they claim.

You can run your car through a car wash but that doesn’t mean it’s clean when it comes out the other side.,


I suspect the chlorine is just to sanitize the pipe, I doubt it can have any affect on the flux. I could be wrong about that, I’d love to read any literature you have on that specific subject.
 
I left out a possible cause of pinholes.

Bacteria attack.......😷😷😷
 
I’m going to try a little experiment.

I’m going to get a piece of soft type L about 3’ long and introduce some Oatey acid tinning flux. Let it run down the inside wall of the pipe. Outside too.

Then I’ll follow the Harris cleaning procedure.

Then I’ll slice a portion of the copper open and take a cue tip and see how clean it is.

I’m guessing it’ll be fluxy 🤣. Say that 5 times real fast.

I’m guessing this is why water based flux was created possibly... just a guess. 🤣
 
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