Can I have help finding a Wi-Fi controlled ON/OFF Timer for my water heater's recirculator pump?

Help Support Plumbing Forums:

Jeff Davis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2018
Messages
72
Reaction score
3
Location
Orange, California
I still wonder why the builder would put in those recirculation pump systems if they're not needed. Makes no sense at all. Builders like to cut corners wherever they can.
Is it really gonna work satisfactorily without the pump?
 

Diehard

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2017
Messages
2,604
Reaction score
456
Location
North Reading, Mass.
I guess it's time for me to stop fooling myself that I can or should do any of this myself. I'm really short on cash, living on federal disability & no other family income. Our savings are going away fast with a mortgage payment & 2 kids in college.
Could someone please tell me in detail exactly what I should get quotes to have done? A photo in that same posting would be awesome so I wouldn't need to dig thru this long thread to find one if a plumber needed to see it to understand that I knew what I'm asking for.
You seem to be totally lost.
No more Aquastat.
Please go back to Posts #71 through #75.

See you around!
 

Diehard

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2017
Messages
2,604
Reaction score
456
Location
North Reading, Mass.
I still wonder why the builder would put in those recirculation pump systems if they're not needed. Makes no sense at all. Builders like to cut corners wherever they can.
Is it really gonna work satisfactorily without the pump?
You are lost!!!!!!!

No one said they are not needed. It's generally an option. I won't go into detail at this point.
 

Jeff Davis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2018
Messages
72
Reaction score
3
Location
Orange, California
I hate it that I keep flip/flopping but maybe a cheaper way to go would be that Aqua-stat & timer deal. So again, would someone kindly tell me which of the cheaper Aqua-stats I should buy on Amazon and show me where to put the clip-on temp sensor along with any wiring info I might need for the Aqua-stat, especially if it's anything more than just plug in the timer, plug the Aqua-stat into it and plug the recirculation pump into it?
I guess while my whole deal is fresh in your minds it would be good to get that thermosiphon setup detailed out like I asked for in my previous reply.
I know I ask for a lot & I really appreciate all of your help.
 
Last edited:

Jeff Davis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2018
Messages
72
Reaction score
3
Location
Orange, California
I'm sorry if this has gone on way too long. It's just that I thought I could learn enough & try something myself. I still think I could do the Aqua-stat myself but even if I couldn't, those seem really cool.
I guess I really blew it with my last 2 postings asking for summaries & images. I'm not a troll.
I guess I'll call the plumber that I used to fix my 2 leaks and ask him to remove the recirculation pump & replace it with just a flex line & swing check valve and give that a try. I can show him PrintScreens of Postings #71 through #75.
I'll keep the recirculation pump and other pieces just in case I need them to put back on either to use as they are now or with an Aqua-stat.
Thanks.
 
Last edited:

Jeff Davis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2018
Messages
72
Reaction score
3
Location
Orange, California
You seem to be totally lost.
No more Aquastat.
Please go back to Posts #71 through #75.

See you around!
Can I beg you to help me get an Aqua-stat & timer installed where I'll buy it on Amazon & install it myself? I really am begging. I want to do what I can to try to prevent any future water leak damage & that seems like the perfect way to do it. I'll do whatever you tell me to do & if that involves my taking photos or feeling pipes to see when they are warm or cold, I'll do it. Please?
 

Jeff Davis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2018
Messages
72
Reaction score
3
Location
Orange, California
Diehard, I think we are pissing into the wind with this OP.
I'm very sad but apparently I've warn out my welcome with Diehard. I'd assume that you guys all work together to help people on this site but can I please ask one of you to help me finish this? I'd really like to install an Aqua-stat & timer myself that one of you taught me about. I really think I should do it ASAP to avoid any additional potential water leak damage & I can't afford to pay to have it done for me. Hopefully you can still spare a little more time to give me some help & advice?
I hope Diehard won't mind your helping me in his place or maybe this site might even let him Unsubscribe from this thread so we won't be pestering him with any Notifications.
I'll try not to post too often or too much info & only what you ask me for.
 

Diehard

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2017
Messages
2,604
Reaction score
456
Location
North Reading, Mass.
Sorry, but my opinion, after 5 pages of comments, is the best thing you can do is either "nothing at all" or "get a professional" to do it.
 

Jeff Davis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2018
Messages
72
Reaction score
3
Location
Orange, California
Sorry, but my opinion, after 5 pages of comments, is the best thing you can do is either "nothing at all" or "get a professional" to do it.
I'm sorry if I've taken up too much of your time while I was trying to learn how to do something new. I'm embarrassed at how long this went on but it's still mine to fix or get fixed. Either way, getting advice here was helping me a lot.
 

Jeff Davis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2018
Messages
72
Reaction score
3
Location
Orange, California
Sorry, but my opinion, after 5 pages of comments, is the best thing you can do is either "nothing at all" or "get a professional" to do it.
I'm getting a quote on Monday to have an Aqua-stat & timer installed by the guys that fixed the pinhole leak last month. I'd still like to do it myself and I'm sure I could with a little advice since there's no actual plumbing work involved.
 

Jeff Davis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2018
Messages
72
Reaction score
3
Location
Orange, California
Can I pretty please have a little more help on this so I can finish it up? I'm really needing to do it as cheaply as possible and yet it seems important so that I can hopefully avoid any pinhole leaks and house drywall damages.
If you will, I'll try to keep my replies shorter than this one.
I tested something before getting the quote today & it really eases my mind and makes me realize that I can really do this myself if I just buy an Aqua-stat on Amazon.

I found an arrow on the back of the recirculation pump that indicates that the water comes in from the top of the pump, which is where the water is pulled from everywhere in the house & it is pumped out the bottom which is just connected to the bottom of the water heater with a short piece of flexible tubing.

Since the recirculation pump hadn't been running overnight & nobody had used any hot water today, I felt how warm the 3/4" pipe on the top-left of the water heater was. It was a little warm but not hot. That's probably just since it is so close and right above the hot water heater and heat rises.

The pipes down by the recirculation pump were room temp.

Then I plugged in the recirculation pump which had been unplugged since I'm so afraid of it springing another pinhole leak in the piping and very quickly (seconds) the pipe above the water heater got hot and after a little time, maybe a minute or less, the pipes by the recirculation pump started warming. They kept getting warmer slowly.

So this must mean that the clip-on temp reader can be a 1/2" on the lines on either side of the recirculation pump since that's what size that little line is that returns to water to the water heater so that it can be heated again?

I can do that installation easy myself. I'm jazzed. I'm comfortable doing minor wiring if it needs any. I saw a wirenut in the picture on Amazon, so it must.

Can someone confirm that my decision on where to locate the Aqua-stat temp reader is correct? Then I could buy the 1/2" Aqua-stat for $50 and get at it.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Jeff Davis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2018
Messages
72
Reaction score
3
Location
Orange, California
I'm excited. I ordered that cheap $50 Grundfos 595656, 1/2" 105° > 115° clip-on Aqua-stat & when it gets here, I'll put it on along with a timer. I know my pump isn't a Grundfos but a temperature switch doesn't care. The Honeywell Aqua-stats & others are all crazy expensive & way more involved. This little Grundfos is just an electronic switch that can work with anything. I'm sure you guys know all that.
Since I determined that the pump pulls cooled hot water from all over the house & pushes it into the bottom of the water heater, I'll clip the temp sensor on the 1/2" copper between that pump & the bottom of the water heater. I see a checkvalve up in the cold supply pipe for the water heater that's obviously there to keep the recirculation pump from overriding the city water pressure.
I don't know what effect our warm temps here in southern California will have on how this works since it will be in my garage that gets pretty hot in the summer.
I don't know if I should wrap the temp sensor with insulation. Any advice or should I just try it?
checkvalve above water heater on input pipe & Aqua-stat I got.jpg
 
Last edited:

Jeff Davis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2018
Messages
72
Reaction score
3
Location
Orange, California
You are lost!!!!!!!
My Aqua-stat arrived. I know where I want to clip it on. I've done plenty of wire stripping before & using wire-nuts to join wires after running my small manufacturing business and racing cars my whole life.
If you could just tell me, does it matter which of the 2 bigger wires in the pump's power cord I should wire-nut the Aqua-stat switch in? That cord has ribbed stripes down one side, a skinny ground wire down the middle and then a smooth wire on the other side.
From what I know, it doesn't matter which wire of the 2 a switch is on, regardless of if it is AC or DC current. Right?
Aquastat kit.jpg
 
Last edited:

Diehard

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2017
Messages
2,604
Reaction score
456
Location
North Reading, Mass.
You mentioned, "I'll clip the temp sensor on the 1/2" copper between that pump & the bottom of the water heater."
Why not as it's shown on the typical diagram I had already included? (Suction side of pump.)
kingpumps_2272_61568409.jpg

As far as the wiring, I'd say use the aquastat switch to control the black.

Doesn't it come with brief instructions? If not, just called them.
 
Last edited:

Jeff Davis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2018
Messages
72
Reaction score
3
Location
Orange, California
You mentioned, "I'll clip the temp sensor on the 1/2" copper between that pump & the bottom of the water heater."
Why not as it's shown on the typical diagram I had already included? (Suction side of pump.)
View attachment 23402

As far as the wiring, I'd say use the aquastat switch to control the black.

Doesn't it come with brief instructions? If not, just called them.
Thanks. Oops, yes, I goofed. Somehow, I’d missed your image showing typical plumbing. I'll put the Aquastat above the pump where there's more room on 1/2" copper than there is below it. I can even then use the insulation to cover the Aquastat too since I'm in southern California & that stuff is out in my garage where it gets pretty hot in the summer.

I sure wish that I'd seen that image of yours awhile ago since it is exactly how everything on mine is plumbed & it even shows the direction the water flows. My pump has an arrow on it that tells me that it too pulls water down from above it. My excuse is that the Reply notification emails in my iPhone sometimes only have links to images & I can miss things since they don't have the picture itself. Also, that I was getting several replies some days and the link in the email notifications for those doesn’t brings me to the actual reply but instead just to the top of the page it is on so I might have just scrolled on past the image.

So, I must have read your Reply in the email but just scrolled past it once I came to the site.

All this time, I'd been thinking that my system wasn't plumbed in the conventional way due to something that someone had said.
Aquastat plumbing suggested by Diehard which matches how mine will be.jpg recirculation pump current plumbing & insulation.jpg
 

Jeff Davis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2018
Messages
72
Reaction score
3
Location
Orange, California
Still, I don't know which wire is black yet since they're all bound together into a flat power cord with what looks to be a smaller grounding wire running down the middle. I haven’t cut into the outer insulation yet & since the inner wires aren’t exposed anywhere, I don’t know which one is black.

Maybe I'd see a black wire if I cut the insulation off both of the big wires (see photo) but that's why I said that one has lines on the outside. I'd thought that it might be common so that electricians know which is the black one. But maybe it's only done on some wires so that an electrician can track which wire is which?

I added a few black lines on an image to show where there are ribs that are only on one side of the power cord. Do electricians typically used the ribbed side so denote either the Black or White wire inside? That could help me figure it out if that’s normally done.

I attached a scan of their wiring diagram. The installation instructions are for putting a Grundfog Aquastat onto a Grundfog pump and mine is some other brand. So their diagram doesn't do everything for me. It shows wires labeled N & L and I don't know why.

I asked the seller on Amazon and they couldn't tell me. As you see, there's nothing specifying which wire is which and also, my pump isn't a Grundfog brand like the Aquastat is.
Grundfos Aqua-stat wiring P.6 Fig. 7.jpg recirculation pump current power cord.jpg
 

Diehard

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2017
Messages
2,604
Reaction score
456
Location
North Reading, Mass.
Black wire refers to the live wire carrying the juice. While white wire is typically the neutral. It would likely work either way but it is preferred to switch the Live wire(black)(also referred to as the line "L") rather than the neutral "N"(white). That way you're stopping the 120V at the switch rather than simply breaking the circuit but still allow the live wire to continue through where one might think it dead.

You could use a multimeter to test for the live(black) wire vs the neutral wire. In fact most newer plugs these days have a wider and narrower blade in addition to the ground. The wider blade on a plug/receptor is typically the neutral and the narrow is the live(power). That's assuming of course it was wired properly within the electrical box.
 
2
Group Builder
Top