Air in water system

[Andy02]

I will keep this as brief as possible. I'm old (almost 74) and plumbed my whole house in 1981, and re-did the well in 2008 (shallow well jet in basement, only lifts about 5'). Everything has been fine since.

But I'm done doing this kind of thing; still physically able for the most part, but just don't want to. So I had a new electric water heater put in in October 2023 by some lame plumbers from Lowe's.

New well drilled in 2005 had gobs of iron in it, had a softener specifically made to remove iron installed in February 2006 by the local Culligan company -- everything went smoothly. It's worked great for years; had new beads put in in October 2022. But water is not quite as good as it used to be.

So in February this year I had the same Culligan company (huge mistake, different people) put in some type of filter ahead of the softener to address the iron.

So since then (I think) I've had air blasting out of the bathroom sink faucet in the morning. Not every morning but more than half the time. Sometimes a lot, sometimes a little, sometimes none. Might be after the new system regens (every 4 days) but not sure of that.

My well pump does not run randomly when I'm not using water so to me, that rules out a leaky foot valve or leaks in the suction line from the well to the pump which I'm assuming could draw air into the system. Is there any possible way I could be getting air in my system other than the new filtration contraption? They were here about 3 weeks ago to "fix" the problem but it didn't help. They are coming back tomorrow (Monday 5-13) to look at it again.

Is it at all possible it could be the water heater? (doesn't seem possible to me). Everything is constantly pressurized, obviously, no water leaks, so how can air get into it aside from the new filtration system?

 

[Valveman]

A lot of iron removal system work by adding air to the water. It sounds like the Air Volume Control that lets out the excess air is not working. With a jet pump, a hole in the suction pipe usually causes the pump to loose prime, not air in the lines.

 

[Andy02]

Thanks! I will ask them about that tomorrow.

 

[GReynolds929]

Is the air hot or cold only or both?

 

[Andy02]

Is the air hot or cold only or both?

Mostly hot, which is why I mentioned the water heater, new in October 2023. Although I think the air problems started after the filtration system was installed in March this year.

Is there any possible way the air problem can have anything to do with the water heater?

 

[GReynolds929]

The AIO tank could be malfunctioning like previously stated. Or you could have a reaction with the anode rod off gassing. I had one that had an overactive anode creatingots of air in the system. Replaced with an aluminum anode and problem solved. When the 6 month old anode was removed it was nearly half gone already. Or both.

 

[Andy02]

The AIO tank could be malfunctioning like previously stated. Or you could have a reaction with the anode rod off gassing. I had one that had an overactive anode creatingots of air in the system. Replaced with an aluminum anode and problem solved. When the 6 month old anode was removed it was nearly half gone already. Or both.

Ha, interesting.

Okay, I'll add more info. As noted, I had Lowe's install the new heater in 10/23. They got done, I paid them and they left. After a bit I tried the hot water and barely anything came out. I checked the kitchen, still nothing. So I'm looking at the new heater and I noted that they had turned the cold water on, but hadn't turned the outgoing on.

So I immediately shut the power off, turned the outgoing valve on and purged all the air out, letting it run a few minutes more to be sure. All told, I'm guessing the power had to be on around 20 minutes, with whatever air was still in the new tank. I suppose it would have filled until the pressure there equalized the pressure in my well pressure tank.

Was the upper element exposed all that time? Who knows. If so, did it damage it? The hot water seems to be working okay now, although I had a hell of a time (weeks) to get the upper and lower element settings synced so I got the same temp water even if I drew a lot. I've never had that problem before with an electric heater.

Can any of this have anything to do with my air problem?

FWIW: I sent a written complaint to my local Lowe's, and went to AO Smith's website and wrote a complaint also.

 

[Twowaxhack]

If the upper element was not submerged then it would have burnt out. So undoubtedly the upper element was submerged.

 

[Andy02]

If the upper element was not submerged then it would have burnt out. So undoubtedly the upper element was submerged.

Thanks. So you would rule out the heater as the reason for the air-in-the-system problem?

 

[Twowaxhack]

Thanks. So you would rule out the heater as the reason for the air-in-the-system problem?

It could be a chemical reaction in the heater creating a gas but it wouldn’t be air. I doubt the water heater is the problem.

 

[Andy02]

It could be a chemical reaction in the heater creating a gas but it wouldn’t be air. I doubt the water heater is the problem.

Okay, thanks to all for the help.

The filter guys are coming Monday afternoon, and I wanted to be sure it was their system causing the problem. Actually it was the only thing that made sense to me, but you guys confirmed it as best as you could from a distance.

I will update this thread as needed.

 

[Andy02]

A lot of iron removal system work by adding air to the water. It sounds like the Air Volume Control that lets out the excess air is not working. With a jet pump, a hole in the suction pipe usually causes the pump to loose prime, not air in the lines.

Yes, when they were here about 3 weeks ago they adjusted something with the air pump, as I recall. Didn't help.

So they came back yesterday and re-did the air. Very complicated, I asked them a lot of questions on how it works. I don't really grasp the whole thing, not sure he did either.

Anyway, they adjusted the air pump "On" from 5 minutes to 4 minutes (I think).

This morning, no air from faucet. But one morning doesn't mean anything because that happened sometimes anyway. We'll see. He said if this doesn't work he will get in contact with the manufacturer.

 

[Andy02]

UPDATE: May 25, 12 days after they were here. Seven of those days there was air, the other five there was not. So it's still not right. I took videos of a few days when it was blasting air, although I don't think they think I'm making this all up. I had three days in a row this week of no air and I was hoping it was fixed, but nope.

I will have to call them again.

 

[Andy02]

UPDATE: They called me the other day and said they were going to replace some part, coming over on Monday June 10.

 

[Andy02]

They were here Monday. For the previous week or so before they came there was an error about a stuck valve showing on the screen of the unit. I took a pik and sent it to them. Monday they took it apart and showed me a valve mechanism that was red with iron and that's why it stuck.

The system that's supposed to remove iron malfunctioned because it got built up with iron? Please tell me this isn't a nightmare and instead is part of a Seinfeld episode.

They changed some settings and told me the salesman would call me. This is the same jerk who sold me the system -- he literally went from selling used cars to water treatment. I do not like the guy and told them but he called anyway and now wants to sell me something else for $500-something, some kind of sediment filter. What good is that going to do if the problem is iron plugging up the iron-removal system?

Plus, I'm still getting air in my water.

EDIT: It's now about 9:45 PM. This system regenerated this morning, finished around 7 AM. The air has been coming out way, way worse than it ever did. Flushed the toilet several times, ran water in bathroom and kitchen, did dishes, watered my small garden this afternoon and it was gushing air most of the time.

Before this week it would only do it first thing in the morning when I drew water in the bathroom sink, which is the first outlet in the system; everything else is downstream from that. It would blow air 2-3 times and that would be it. It's been coming out all day today.

I'm tired of screwing with these people and I don't want their junk system in my house. What options do I have?