ABS pipe burried in concrete wall with water line behind. How to add a fitting?

[Magnum]

Hi. I am having a bit of an issue adding a fitting in that vertical pipe. It is burried in concrete and there is a copper water line sitting right behind the ABS pipe.

There was an old san-tee in the spot so someone probably patched the hole with concrete. I had to be really careful while cutting the old tee out and removing the cement around it.

Now I am not sure how to fit the wye in there since there is no room to wiggle the ABS so that I could fit the wye to the bottom and add a fernco from the top. Also, I wont be able to slide 2 couplings, from the bottom and fron the top, due to the copper pipe being too close, plus not having enough room from the bottom to slide the fernco before fitting the wye. Can't use a fernco thats soft enough to fold it before fitting the wye and then unfolding it, due to the copper pipe...

Do you know of any tricks to add a tee when an ABS is sitting tight and having little room around it and below?




Also if a rubber ("no hub") coupling is the only way to do it, should I use a shielded coupling, such as Proflex (pic below) or do I need a no arc coupling with 3-4 bands, especially since there's a Saniflo macerator pump draining there?

 

[breplum]

horrible situation.. I'm running away

 

[Magnum]

I would extremely appreciate someone's help!




Looks like it's even worse...I was hoping that the copper pipe turns a bit higher where it comes out of the wall from the water heater but no...there's actually 3 copper pipes burried in that wall. With the one in above picture being right behind the ABS pipe so I cannot even slide a coupling in there.

I was also hoping that I would be able to locate the copper pipes under slab, then run new lines outside of the wall and connect it underground but I found just one water line. I have no idea where the other 2 copper lines are going.

I will still try to look for the copper underground but I don't think I'll find it without cutting a big portion of the slab. I wouldn't want to leave those copper pipes as is, since it's most likely going to leak at some point. Or would you just leave it?

Now, theres another issue which I need to take care of as well. I need to fix the vertical pipe and two fixtures (or 3 if possible). I'll probably drain the macerator into a new horizontal branch so I won't worry about that now.

As mentioned before, the copper line sits right behind the ABS with no room behind to fit any coupling (neither slip, no hub, or rubber) at the top so I was thinking of using an internal coupling at the top and a fitting from the bottom.
OR skipping the center section of that pipe completely, adding 45 fittings to run a new pipe along the wall, then tying in at the upper section of the vent (where the cinder block is empty).

I made a few sketches.

Option 1:
Internal coupling from the top, fitting from the bottom. Keeping the pipe as it was before.


Option 2:
Internal coupling from the top, fitting from the bottom. Keeping the pipe as additional vent but adding a new stack for the fixtures.


Option 3:
Internal coupling from the top, fitting from the bottom. Keeping the pipe as additional vent but adding a horizontal drain line for the fixtures


Option 4:
Ditching the middle section of the burried vertical pipe and tying a new stack (which would be the easiest option and I wouldn't need to use any couplings). Then adding the drains for fixtures from above options.

 

[GReynolds929]

Oh man that's a nightmare. If it was me I'd be making a wider opening and removing all the concrete around the pipe and hopefully give myself room to work.

 

[Magnum]

Oh man that's a nightmare. If it was me I'd be making a wider opening and removing all the concrete around the pipe and hopefully give myself room to work.

That would be the best way but the concrete is extremely stiff, they must have used the cheapest high streght concrete mix to fill those blocks.
On top of that the copper pipes are not straight at all but are bent, so I need to chip the concrete little by little. I'd still do it, but I have no idea where those copper pipes dissapear underground.
I made an opening in the slab since I replaced a wye and horizontal branch (pipes were not backfilled but burried in concrete instead without any protection or cover, plus a CPVC pipe and fitting was glued to the ABS with a regular cement and a slip coupling...) but as mentioned, theres only one copper pipe running underground, unless the other one if further away.

I am also not sure why there are 3 copper lines burried in the wall, since theres only two coming out of the wall.

 

[Twowaxhack]

That would be the best way but the concrete is extremely stiff, they must have used the cheapest high streght concrete mix to fill those blocks.

Yeah, I hate when they use that stiff concrete…….

 

[CT18]

You have to open that up to expose all the piping. I cant believe they didn't even put any armaflex on that copper before incasing it in concrete. When we put pipe in block walls that will be filled we wrap it.

 

[havasu]

What tool are you using to remove the concrete?

 

[Magnum]

I am making cuts with a grinder then using a rotary hammer and a chisel/hammer.
I already made an opening in that wall and replaced the water lines. Now I am planning on the drain lines.

I need to fit 3 fixtures and a cleanout to a vertical stack, which makes it 1 wye and 3 santees. The stack is encased in concrete wall so I was planning on adding another stack into that line, so that it is exposed and easier to work. However the washer trap arm would be too high since I need to add the wye for a Saniflo macerating pump (the lines are 2" so I need the sanflo to grind the toilet waste) which needs to drain first in stack. The sink on the right is in another room on the other side of the wall so it needs to stay there. The sink on the left would be used in the half bath.



With this configuration (1st pic) the tees would be at this height:
- 17" for Saniflo wye
- 22" for washer tee
- 27" for cleanout tee
- the sink would be tied into the main stack to eliminate the need for another vent

I assume that this would not be acceptable, unless I drain the macerator above the washer tee, but I don't think this is a good idea with a pressurized waste.



Another option (2nd pic) would be to just use the vertical vent that is encased in concrete wall, while skipping the secondary stack. The height would be as follow:
- 9" for Saniflo wye
- 14" for washer tee (with a vent)
- 19" for sink tee
- 24" for cleanout

With this option everything seems to meet the code but would require me to make a large opening in the wall and finding a way of keeping the structural streght of the wall without burring the pipes in concrete.



Third option (3rd pic) would be pretty much the same as option 2 but using a double santee or double fixture fitting (not sure which one is correct) to eliminate the need for a vent for washer. It would also be much wasier to do.

I would prefer option 1 or 3.
Which is the right way of doing this?

I would appreciate your insight.