A city boy now has a well. Lots of questions!

[Springer82]

Good morning everyone. This is my first post. I have a lot to learn. Thanks for your help in advance.

So,,,, here I go.
I have almost no water pressure. Everything is old and outdated. A 1 -3/4 well pipe. I can only imagine how much crap is built up inside the tip.

Can I reasonably put a 2" pipe in. Should I update the tall tank. The one under the pump is not connected. Is the small tank on top of the pump only to increase pressure. Once again thanks for your help!

 

[Jamesplumbing06]

You could have several issues. So I got some questions that will help you recieve help from us.
Is there any leaks you can find ? Any and all drips.
Do you have a filter somewhere?

Does pump cycle without water being turned on at fixtures?
Does your pump whine?
What is your “low pressure” relate to in psi on gauge ?
On the grey box attached to pump. Uncover the pressure switch cover. Turn cover over. Inside the cover is a rating sticker. Pressure cycle is marked as 30 on 50 off or 20-40 or 40-60. What is yours reading?
Where is low pressure? Just a sink or shower or whole house?
Is your pump 110volt or 220?
That’s all I can think of right now.

 

[Springer82]

You could have several issues. So I got some questions that will help you recieve help from us.
Is there any leaks you can find ? Any and all drips.
Do you have a filter somewhere?

Does pump cycle without water being turned on at fixtures?
Does your pump whine?
What is your “low pressure” relate to in psi on gauge ?
On the grey box attached to pump. Uncover the pressure switch cover. Turn cover over. Inside the cover is a rating sticker. Pressure cycle is marked as 30 on 50 off or 20-40 or 40-60. What is yours reading?
Where is low pressure? Just a sink or shower or whole house?
Is your pump 110volt or 220?
That’s all I can think of right now.

Thank you for your time James. Very bad pressure in the hole house. No leaks I can see. I need new bearings on the pump. You can hear it. Its 110 to the pump. Would I be better off with 110 or 220 with the drop in amps.

 

[wood4d]

you tank gauge says 55lbs. thats good. you probably need to post a picture of the pipes coming off the pump. you have a shallow well pump which isnt the best scenerio for water. If you only have a 3/4 copper pipe coming off the pump its most likely a well issue. There is a screen on the bottom of the galvanized which is probably caked up and its probably only 20 feet deep. Shallow well pumps are notorius for sounding like crap even when they work well. Your pressure gauge is likely bad.

 

[Jamesplumbing06]

110 is fine. 220 and i would just ask if 1 breaker tripped. But not the case.
So moving into an older house. You going to experience a huge difference in plumbing. Some galvanized gets corroded and slows flow. But unfortunately you can’t be sure you totally fix unless you remove all of it. Start by removing and cleaning all screens and aerators in each faucet. Run faucet without screens and notice if better a little or a lot. If a lot then let flow a minute before putting cleaned aerator on. I keep a package of new ones on truck. But this could be simply known by checking outdoor faucet for garden hose. Is that pressure any better than house? If not then it’s prolly not aerators. How is water quality?
If you do vote to completely repipe. Then do 3/4 trunk lines with 1/2 branches for each faucet. Your suction pipe might be ok BUT DO CHECK SCREEN ON FOOT VALVE . Very rare does a 1.25” pipe corroded that much. To much volume moving to fast all the time prevents too much scale on vertical lines. But do check it. Then with a 40-60 switch you can be close to feeling like city water again. The well company here suggests 70-90 and a prv set at 65. Last house we could maintain 4 showers and 4 sinks steady at 50psi running.

 

[Springer82]

We did have a well guy come out a few weeks ago. He adjusted the pressure to around the 40/60 area. He commented on the pump going. Bad bearings. You can hear it. And cleaning the screen. The house sat empty for two years. I'm more inclined to replace it rather than trying to clean it. That is why I asked about going to a 2" pipe. I put a tape measure up to the pipe. More then likely I have a 1 1/4" pipe. As for galvanized pipe goes. The only place you will find it is at the pump. The hole house has been updated to copper.

Also we get air out the sinks when using the well. Not deep enough???

 

[Jamesplumbing06]

We did have a well guy come out a few weeks ago. He adjusted the pressure to around the 40/60 area. He commented on the pump going. Bad bearings. You can hear it. And cleaning the screen. The house sat empty for two years. I'm more inclined to replace it rather than trying to clean it. That is why I asked about going to a 2" pipe. I put a tape measure up to the pipe. More then likely I have a 1 1/4" pipe. As for galvanized pipe goes. The only place you will find it is at the pump. The hole house has been updated to copper.

Also we get air out the sinks when using the well. Not deep enough???

Defentily check foot valve. Most above ground pumps intake is 1.25” so any larger will not gain you any so long as it’s pvc. Your pressure tank looks more like an expansion tank. He did increase air in that also? And had faucets open to bleed the water pressure and retest the pressure tank? Usually takes a minute and a few times.

 

[Jamesplumbing06]

I don’t know that I wouldn’t convert to a submersible. That looks like a 5” drilled hole. Talk to local company first. See if they can drop a deep well pump in and you can rest easy for long time

 

[Valveman]

It is your well system. You can have enough pressure to pressure wash a car in your shower if you want. You just have to make it happen since it is your water system. I am always irritated when people complain and say they want "city like water pressure". Your system can deliver higher pressure than any city, but you can't just "wish" it to happen.

First you need to figure out why the pressure is low. Turn on the shower or whatever you use when you think the pressure is low. While the water is being used, watch the pressure gauge on the pump. Does it continually turn the pump on and off while going from 40 to 60, or does it just drop to 20-30 PSI and stay there until you turn the water off. If the pump is cycling on/off from 40/60 while using water, you are getting an average of 50 PSI, but it will seem low. Eliminating the cycling and turning the average 50 PSI into a constant 60 PSI will make a huge difference. If the pressure just stays low while using water, either the pump is not large enough or is being starved for water, like from a clogged screen.

Also give us the model number on the pump and we can see just how much pressure it should make.

 

[Valveman]

The well company here suggests 70-90 and a prv set at 65.

LOL you are getting 65 PSI constant while the pump is cycling to death between 70 and 90. If you set a Cycle Stop Valve for 65 PSI with a 50/70 pressure switch, you will still get 65 PSI constant and the CSV will keep the pump from being cycled to death. Also would work with a much smaller pressure tank, since the CSV makes the water go right past the tank straight to the house(s).

 

[Jamesplumbing06]

So this device can remain pushing 65 psi while the source feeding it drops to 50 before coming building back to 70? I digging now. That goes against newton.

 

[Valveman]

The pressure reducing valve set at 65 with a 70/90 pressure switch means you are getting 65 PSI constant to the house while the pump is continually cycling on and off between 70 and 90. The pump is running at higher pressure than needed and is cycling itself to death. Pump guys like this scenario as you get constant pressure to the house while the pump and bladder tank are still cycling and will need replacing often.

The Cycle Stop Valve set at 65 using a 50/70 pressure switch means the pressure will drop to 50 before the pump comes on, then the CSV will hold the pressure at a constant 65 PSI for as long as water is being used. With a small tank (4,5 to 10 gallon size) that only holds 1-2 gallons of water, the drop to 50 PSI happens quickly and is not noticed. As soon as the pump comes on the CSV brings the pressure up to 65 and holds it there for as long as the shower, sprinkler, or any faucet is open. The CSV keeps the pressure at 65 and doesn't let it reach 70, so the pump never cycles off as long as you are using water. Only when you turn off all the faucets will the CSV allow 1 GPM to pass through to fill the pressure tank to 70 and shut off the pump. Pump guys don't like this scenario, because if your pump is not continually cycling on and off it and the bladder tank will last several times longer than normal.

 

[Springer82]

Defentily check foot valve. Most above ground pumps intake is 1.25” so any larger will not gain you any so long as it’s pvc. Your pressure tank looks more like an expansion tank. He did increase air in that also? And had faucets open to bleed the water pressure and retest the pressure tank? Usually takes a minute and a few times.

James there is no PVC in the pump system at all. No that you mention it, it does look like a expansion tank. I was not there when the well guy showed up. Just the wife. I like the csv setup that was mentioned above. If I have to start over I may as well try to do it right.

 

[Springer82]

Thanks to everyone that has helped me so far.

In order to keep on track I would like to put my list of parts up for review. Please feel free to make suggestions. Remember I'm here to learn. I found out that my nextdoor neighbor and his son pounded the well approx 25 years ago. The house sat empty for two years. With that said I'm not going to try to clean the tip. Just replace it.

It's a 1 1/4" pipe. The cost of 2" is not that much more. A 1hp Red Lion pump. A Amtrol WellXtrol wx-102. That is a 4.2 gal tank. Top it off with a CSV1A. I know in there info they say I don't need more then a 1 gal tank. So a little over kill is not that bad. So what do ya think? Did I forget anything. Thanks for your help!!

Also what can I expect when I pull the well pipe out?

 

[Valveman]

It will be harder to drive the 2", but good if you can. That wx102 (4.2 gallon size tank) is the minimum size tank you need as it only holds 1 gallon of water. The Red Lion model RJS-100-PREM will build a max of 65 PSI, so depending on the depth to water it may not work with a 40/60 pressure switch. It should work fine with a 30/50 pressure switch, as comes with that pump I believe. The CSV1A would need to be set a t 40 PSI with the 30/50 switch. The sensing line to the pressure switch will need to be moved to any place after the CSV1A. The pressure switch can be attached to any of the extra ports on the CSV1A, or to a tee at the pressure tank. Sometimes it is easier to just add a regular 30/50 pressure switch at the CSV1A or tank, and wire around the existing switch on the motor. Finding an extension for that tubing that comes on the pump/pressure switch is not necessary if you just use an additional switch.

Hopefully the old well point just comes out fairly easily.

 

[Springer82]

Thank you Valveman for your help. I do appreciate it. I'm pulling a 1 1/4 pipe. I'm "hoping " the hole from that pipe will make it a little easier to put the 2" in. One can only hope.