Should I tie a new dishwasher drain hose to an unused 1.5" drain stub or to the kitchen sink drain?

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Well there’s nothing plugged into it and I’m still saying it’s not required. I’d bet it’s switched and it’s also old existing work.

Meanwhile in the real world, we have every tank type electric water heater on the market have from 20-30 amps 240v connect with wire nuts on the top of the unit inside a metal bowl. With the entire case on the outside 2’ x 5’ pure metal.
When it was put in, I'm sure it wasn't required. Based on what the builder did for the dishwasher "rough-in", I would say you are also right that it is on a switch as I would guess it is for a garbage disposal, which in the past wouldn't require a GFCI when it was plugged in. But even in the past, a dishwasher required a GFCI if it was plugged in. So, if he is going to plug in the dishwasher here, it needs to be a GFCI for sure.

And based on your comment, I don't think you understand what a GFCI is for. In the real world, a GFCI is to protect the person plugging or unplugging some appliance in a wet location. They are not used if devices are hard wired like water heaters, garbage disposals, dishwashers, etc.
 
When it was put in, I'm sure it wasn't required. Based on what the builder did for the dishwasher "rough-in", I would say you are also right that it is on a switch as I would guess it is for a garbage disposal, which in the past wouldn't require a GFCI when it was plugged in. But even in the past, a dishwasher required a GFCI if it was plugged in. So, if he is going to plug in the dishwasher here, it needs to be a GFCI for sure.

And based on your comment, I don't think you understand what a GFCI is for. In the real world, a GFCI is to protect the person plugging or unplugging some appliance in a wet location. They are not used if devices are hard wired like water heaters, garbage disposals, dishwashers, etc.
They can be for hardwired appliances if your referencing the 2020 nec. Better check again, cherry picking the code isn’t not allowed. 😬
https://www.nfpa.org/news-blogs-and...de-that-help-make-kitchens-safer-for-families
But we do t go into homes and start pointing out things that are not to current code unless there’s a remodel or a direct mandate in the code where it must be addressed.

You don’t update everything just because a code changes.

Do I understand ? 🤣
 
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This article mentions "receptacles", but I didn't see anything about hard wired devices in this one. Your reply 35 minutes ago did specifically state dishwashers have to have GFCI protection period.

And it obviously is good practice to do as you do, and "But we do t go into homes and start pointing out things that are not to current code unless there’s a remodel or a direct mandate in the code where it must be addressed."
 
This article mentions "receptacles", but I didn't see anything about hard wired devices in this one. Your reply 35 minutes ago did specifically state dishwashers have to have GFCI protection period.

And it obviously is good practice to do as you do, and "But we do t go into homes and start pointing out things that are not to current code unless there’s a remodel or a direct mandate in the code where it must be addressed."

Not all dishwashers have to have GFCI protection. Depends on when the home was built and if there has been a major remodel.

I connnect dishwashers all the time to outlets and wiring that’s not GFCI protected and it’s perfectly legal for me to do so. Garbage disposals, same thing.

The article covers outside devices such as HVAC units and like equipment. You ever see an outside AC unit plug in ?
 
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Fortunately another outlet is on the wall in the 2’ empty space where the dishwasher is going and a cabinet separates it from the sink. I don’t use the outlet under the sink for anything, and I don’t plan to since there are outlets above the counter. So I could put a face plate over it if that would be smart for safety. What part do people think is needed for tying my water inlet into the kitchen sink line: should the compression tee be 3/8 x 3/8 x 1/4 or 1/4 x 1/4 x 38 or 3/8 x 3/8 x 3/8?

The DW hose kit I bought from HD says it can connect to 3/8 or 1/4, but that 3/8 is easier for this hose. But the existing hot water hose looks narrower, so I don’t know if it should connect to 1/4” on each side of the tee? I’ve watched 4 videos on installing new DWs, but most of them re-use existing inlet water set-ups. For installing it, do I just cut the hot water line and attach both sides of it to the tee, and the dishwasher hose to the third spot? Thanks -this is super helpful.

1705926077390.png
 
Not all dishwashers have to have GFCI protection. Depends on when the home was built and if there has been a major remodel.

I connnect dishwashers all the time to outlets and wiring that’s not GFCI protected and it’s perfectly legal for me to do so. Garbage disposals, same thing.

The article covers outside devices such as HVAC units and like equipment. You ever see an outside AC unit plug in ?
From the article:

"The changes in 210.8(A) will result in all 125‐volt through 250‐volt receptacles installed at dwelling units
supplied by single‐phase branch circuits rated 150‐volts or less to ground be provided with ground‐fault
circuit‐interrupter (GFCI) protection for personnel. During the 2020 NEC cycle it was substantiated that
250‐volt receptacle outlets present similar shock hazards as 125‐volt receptacle outlets. This change will
impact the typical 240‐volt receptacle outlets for cord‐and‐plug connected dryers, ranges, ovens or
similar appliances. This new addition of 250‐volt receptacles, and the removal of any ampere limitation,
will require GFCI protection for commonly used receptacle outlets in the specified areas of 210.8(A)(1)
through (A)(11): "


But oops, I did miss the following:


"GFCI protection is required on dwelling unit outdoor outlets* supplied by single‐phase branch circuits
rated 150‐volts or less to ground, and 50‐amperes or less. NEC 210.8(F) is only applicable to readily
accessible outdoor equipment outlets. The intent of the requirement is to protect individuals who may
come into contact with outdoor equipment that is likely to become energized. This change will mostly
impact outdoor heat pumps, air‐conditioning units and similar equipment. There is an exception that

excludes outdoor lighting outlets from having to be GFCI protected."

So it appears there is going to be an increase in GFCI breakers in panels.

And yes, you can legally connect dishwashers and garbage disposals to non-GFCI outlets as long as it doesn't go against the laws/ordinances of the AHJ. But as the NEC has established new requirements, doing so isn't "best practice".

And some jurisdictions, like where I live, the installation of a new dishwasher like this OP is doing, would require a permit. Replacement installations do not have to be brought up to current code, but new permitted installations are required to meet current code.
 
Fortunately another outlet is on the wall in the 2’ empty space where the dishwasher is going and a cabinet separates it from the sink. I don’t use the outlet under the sink for anything, and I don’t plan to since there are outlets above the counter. So I could put a face plate over it if that would be smart for safety. What part do people think is needed for tying my water inlet into the kitchen sink line: should the compression tee be 3/8 x 3/8 x 1/4 or 1/4 x 1/4 x 38 or 3/8 x 3/8 x 3/8?

The DW hose kit I bought from HD says it can connect to 3/8 or 1/4, but that 3/8 is easier for this hose. But the existing hot water hose looks narrower, so I don’t know if it should connect to 1/4” on each side of the tee? I’ve watched 4 videos on installing new DWs, but most of them re-use existing inlet water set-ups. For installing it, do I just cut the hot water line and attach both sides of it to the tee, and the dishwasher hose to the third spot? Thanks -this is super helpful.

View attachment 43914
You just need to use the sizes that match your existing valve and tubing.
 
Nobody cares Mr. Ed. It’s all horse crap and doesn’t apply to that existing plug under his sink that’s not being used.
 
Each appliance or fixture is suppose to have its own water shut off valve and not interrupt another appliance or fixture when it’s used.
 
Hopefully that 5/8 compression nut never starts leaking any as it will run directly on that outlet. I think I would change it if I was
the homeowner just for safety.
 
Hopefully that 5/8 compression nut never starts leaking any as it will run directly on that outlet. I think I would change it if I was
the homeowner just for safety.
Yeah I’d hate for water to get in that outlet and then fire and hell shoot out of it all over someone.

And for all anyone knows that outlet is GFCI protected, like that is the ultimate safety or something. 🤣
 
So it appears there is going to be an increase in GFCI breakers in panels.

And yes, you can legally connect dishwashers and garbage disposals to non-GFCI outlets as long as it doesn't go against the laws/ordinances of the AHJ. But as the NEC has established new requirements, doing so isn't "best practice".
Sometimes "code" needs to be taken with a grain of salt in lieu of "best practices" and in that respect, @MicEd69 you nailed it. Code is merely the barest minimum legal requirement and often isn't comprehensive enough. A smart electrician or plumber or any other contractor will go above and beyond code when best practices (not to mention logic) make sense.

"Code" in this case has to do with the LOCATION of an outlet, and has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the use of that outlet, or even if the outlet is used at all! If an outlet is near water, (or outside or in a garage) it SHOULD be GFCI protected. That's best practices.

If that outlet under the sink is GFCI protected (from upstream or a breaker), it should be labeled as such, though this is rarely ever done. Personally, I'd rather have my undersink outlets protected upstream with GFCI either by an outlet before it, or a panel breaker. If the GFCI protection at that point is ONLY from a GFCI outlet there, if tripped, only the outlet itself has the hot cut off. The power to the outlet itself is still hot and live in the box. If the GFCI protection is at the breaker or upstream, then the power is cut upstream, and no power remains in the outlet or box. Big difference.

My prior dishwasher (GE Cafe) that came with my home was hard wired. The replacement dishwasher (Bosch 800) only came with a plug. So I had to install an outlet in the cabinet...and yes I used a GFCI outlet. Local code or practice--I don't know which or why--has power to the disposal/dishwasher sharing a neutral with a three-wire feed, and two 15A breakers in the panel joined. This 3-wire meets in a J-box under the sink/dishwasher area in the crawl space, where it separates to two 2-wire cables. One now feeds a GFCI outlet on the right side that serves the air switch for the disposal, and the other on the left side is where the dishwasher plugs in. I installed BOTH of these outlets, albeit at different times. Yes, two GFCIs under my sink. In my case, really the best solution would be to change the breaker(s) to GFCI. They are dedicated only to these undersink uses.

Anybody can do pretty much whatever they want. I install a lot of disposals and faucets has a handyman, and I rarely see an under sink cabinet that has NOT seen water damage from a leak. So it only makes sense that in these areas that get wet, you ensure GFCI protection.
 
Personally, I'd rather have my undersink outlets protected upstream with GFCI either by an outlet before it, or a panel breaker. If the GFCI protection at that point is ONLY from a GFCI outlet there, if tripped, only the outlet itself has the hot cut off. The power to the outlet itself is still hot and live in the box. If the GFCI protection is at the breaker or upstream, then the power is cut upstream, and no power remains in the outlet or box. Big difference.
Yep, that is always what I have thought and what I do when I can like you.

But as I stated earlier, the primary purpose of a GFCI
was to protect the person plugging or unplugging a device in a wet location. The NEC has now addressed the issue of hard-wired devices but have yet to address the problem of live wiring inside the outlet of a GFCI receptacle.

I guess water spraying into a GFCI receptacle has yet to hurt someone.
 
Don’t forget to install Arc fault breakers also. Keep your tools handy for next years new best practices.

In 10 yrs you’ll look back at how we were savages with just a GFCI 😉
 
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