Would these changes help water pressure?

[davidmsem]

Hello! New to the forum and plumbing. Own a Ridgid mini proPress RP115 and have done several projects around the house.

I'm wondering about making some plumbing changes to simplify the route of water from my holding tank. The water flows from the holding tank up about 7 ft, then down to the filtration system, at floor level, then back up through a bunch of elbows that used to feed a water softener that is no longer needed.

I noticed that I could really simplify this route. shorten the route and eliminate roughly 11 90° elbows. in terms of an impact on water pressure, would this be noticeable? any opinions I appreciate. Don't know if I should get better go. would only do the price of a handful of fittings.

thank you.

 

[breplum]

Pressure can't change no matter how many elbows are involved.
Flow can change with enough friction loss, which can be from fittings and length of pipe.

 

[davidmsem]

Pressure can't change no matter how many elbows are involved.
Flow can change with enough friction loss, which can be from fittings and length of pipe.

thank you for the reply. I'm wondering if removing the friction loses from the 11 extra 90s, and the unnecessary rise and fall of the water, would result in increased flow, enough to make a noticeable difference.

 

[Twowaxhack]

Static pressure is the pressure without flowing water. It won’t change by removing the 90’s.

Dynamic pressure is the pressure in the system with water flowing. It will increase if you remove 90’s within the flow path.

 

[davidmsem]

thank you for the reply. I'm wondering if removing the friction loses from the 11 extra 90s, and the unnecessary rise and fall of the water, would result in increased flow, enough to make a noticeable difference.

thanks. Do you think it would be noticeable? Wondering was % increase there might be for this effort.

 

[Twowaxhack]

What pressure are you running now ?

Your filter system is most likely the biggest restriction.

I’d run the well system at 60/80 psi pressure switch.

 

[MicEd69]

Do you think it would be noticeable?

No, I don't think you would noticeable. Each 90 is only equivalent to 1 or 2 feet of straight pipe, depending on the size of the copper line. So, removing 11 elbows would only be like moving you point of use 11 or 22 feet closer to your source.



But if you are having pressure variations that are causing you issues, you may want to consider a CycleStopValve. Valveman should be replying to this post in the near future with some information on those.

 

[havasu]

Paging @Valveman to the courtesy phone!

 

[Valveman]

If you want something NOTICIABLE you need strong constant pressure instead of an average pressure as the pump cycles on and off. Elbows and friction loss only decreases pressure at high flow, and a single shower is not high flow. Filters will reduce pressure at any flow rate. Removing the filters if possible will help with pressure. Increasing the pressure switch setting from 40/60 to 50/70 or even 60/80 will help, but it is still an average 60 PSI pressure as the pump cycles on and off between 50 and 70.

Removing that check valve at the tank, which doesn't need to be there, and replacing it with a CSV1A Cycle Stop Valve will give you a noticeable difference in pressure no mater the pressure switch setting. Turning the pressure switch up to 50/70 will help, but adding the CSV to hold a strong constant 60 PSI for as long as the shower is on will seem so much stronger you will no longer need soap. Lol!

I flipped the picture of this one from Sarg so the CSV would be on the correct side for your system.

 

[davidmsem]

If you want something NOTICIABLE you need strong constant pressure instead of an average pressure as the pump cycles on and off. Elbows and friction loss only decreases pressure at high flow, and a single shower is not high flow. Filters will reduce pressure at any flow rate. Removing the filters if possible will help with pressure. Increasing the pressure switch setting from 40/60 to 50/70 or even 60/80 will help, but it is still an average 60 PSI pressure as the pump cycles on and off between 50 and 70.

Removing that check valve at the tank, which doesn't need to be there, and replacing it with a CSV1A Cycle Stop Valve will give you a noticeable difference in pressure no mater the pressure switch setting. Turning the pressure switch up to 50/70 will help, but adding the CSV to hold a strong constant 60 PSI for as long as the shower is on will seem so much stronger you will no longer need soap. Lol!

I flipped the picture of this one from Sarg so the CSV would be on the correct side for your system.

View attachment 43770

very nice of you to reply.

The system runs from 40 to 60 currently.

In the picture below, I am pointing to a location with a blue arrow... is that the check valve you are recommending I remove and replace with a CSV1A? Seems like that is the most impactful first change you are recommending.

 

[Valveman]

Yes. It is about the same length as the CSV1A, which makes it an easy plumbing job. But it will make a big difference in performance as it will need to be set and will hold 55 PSI constant when used with that size tank and a 40/60 switch.

https://cyclestopvalves.com/collections/pump-control-valves/products/csv1a

 

[Twowaxhack]

I’d remove the extra check valve and turn the pressure up to 60/80 and see if that works. Of course you might have to replace your pressure switch to do that and you would need to adjust your air pressure in your bladder tank.

Simple and cheap to do.

Low pressure is often how insufficient volume is described.

Low/restricted volume will cause lower pressure. There’s a relationship.

 

[sarg]

Just a few thoughts to contribute from my experiences.
Stainless steel is harder to "seal" because there's no "stretch" in the threads. Use both plumber's tape and dope like Rectorsal. ( Guidance rec'd by Valveman when I had a leak ).
A heat gun is your friend to remove the plastic well pipe from the barbed fitting ( right side in your picture ) BUT use caution as it will heat quickly and is easily melted. You just need to make it pliable.
I have two CSVs in service. One in the house with a 30/50 switch and one in a utility well at a workshop with 40/60 switch. No regrets.

 

[Twowaxhack]

thanks. Do you think it would be noticeable? Wondering was % increase there might be for this effort.

Removing the 90’s will do nothing noticeable.

Removing restrictions or increasing the pressure will of course solve the problem. So if you have a water softener and don’t need it, MOST definitely remove it.

You could also temporarily bypass the filter system. If that fixes your problem then that’s the source of the problem. Assuming you can’t remove the filter system, Make sure you keep up with routine maintenance and increase your pressure switch to 60/80 and adjust your tank pressure to about 58 psi.

 

[davidmsem]

Removing the 90’s will do nothing noticeable.

Removing restrictions or increasing the pressure will of course solve the problem. So if you have a water softener and don’t need it, MOST definitely remove it.

You could also temporarily bypass the filter system. If that fixes your problem then that’s the source of the problem. Assuming you can’t remove the filter system, Make sure you keep up with routine maintenance and increase your pressure switch to 60/80 and adjust your tank pressure to about 58 psi.

thank you so much. I can bypass the filtration system which is needed. lots of clay and sand appear after dry periods. when bypassing the filtration system there is no noticeable difference, and that is consistent with the reading of the pressure after the last filter. it is almost identical to at the holding tank.

seems like replacing the on/off controller and moving it to 60 to 80 PSI is another improvement. I imagine the trade-off for that would be potential leaks from the higher pressure? not sure why they run it at 40 to 60 in so many homes here.

 

[Twowaxhack]

thank you so much. I can bypass the filtration system which is needed. lots of clay and sand appear after dry periods. when bypassing the filtration system there is no noticeable difference, and that is consistent with the reading of the pressure after the last filter. it is almost identical to at the holding tank.

seems like replacing the on/off controller and moving it to 60 to 80 PSI is another improvement. I imagine the trade-off for that would be potential leaks from the higher pressure? not sure why they run it at 40 to 60 in so many homes here.

I have customers that run 90-100 psi and won’t let me reduce their pressure to the code maximum of 80psi.

I have 90 psi at my personal home.

Point being is that most people that get use to higher pressures, like higher pressures.

Ever drive 80 MPH on the interstate for 2-3 hours then exit onto a road where the speed limit is 40mph ? Feels like you’re crawling…….so slow. Same with water pressure once you get use to higher pressures.

I’d say if you then experience highs and lows with your pressure that’s annoying then adding a constant pressure valve would correct that.

Sure, increasing the pressure can have negative affects, especially if your system is weak. My customers don’t care, they want high pressure.

 

[davidmsem]

I have customers that run 90-100 psi and won’t let me reduce their pressure to the code maximum of 80psi.

I have 90 psi at my personal home.

Point being is that most people that get use to higher pressures, like higher pressures.

Ever drive 80 MPH on the interstate for 2-3 hours then exit onto a road where the speed limit is 40mph ? Feels like you’re crawling…….so slow. Same with water pressure once you get use to higher pressures.

I’d say if you then experience highs and lows with your pressure that’s annoying then adding a constant pressure valve would correct that.

Sure, increasing the pressure can have negative affects, especially if your system is weak. My customers don’t care, they want high pressure.

I have no reason to think the system is weak. We build a home in 1994 and a reputable plumber did the copper work. The work I've done during the current remodel I used a ProPress. should be okay I hope.

 

[sarg]

Our system is very simple overall and I've never been unhappy with our pressure with a 30/50 and the CSV set at about 47 psi.

 

[davidmsem]

Yes. It is about the same length as the CSV1A, which makes it an easy plumbing job. But it will make a big difference in performance as it will need to be set and will hold 55 PSI constant when used with that size tank and a 40/60 switch.

https://cyclestopvalves.com/collections/pump-control-valves/products/csv1a

trying to understand, with a 40 to 60 switch, the CSV1A is set to 55. so if I went to a 60 to 80 switch, with the CSV1A be set to 75?

 

[Twowaxhack]

Our system is very simple overall and I've never been unhappy with our pressure with a 30/50 and the CSV set at about 47 psi.

Do you leave the flow restrictors in your shower heads ?