Irrigation pump

[Chris]

So I finally am making progress on my irrigation water. I am pulling from a river across the highway from my property. I need a 10 hp single phase 240v pump. I ran 4 inch pipe for it. What pump would you guys recommend? Any brand better than others?

 

[Diehard]

So I finally am making progress on my irrigation water. I am pulling from a river across the highway from my property. I need a 10 hp single phase 240v pump. I ran 4 inch pipe for it. What pump would you guys recommend? Any brand better than others?

Very curious as to how you came up with the 10 hp. That's a lot of flow vs pressure, of course depending the type and efficiency.
So are you looking at self priming irrigation pumps?

 

[Chris]

Self priming, it will be sitting on a river bank. I only have access to single phase power and need as much lift as I can possibly get. I have over a hundred feet of lift needed for all my property but will likely need a booster pump to get all the way up. I am irrigating 14 acres.

 

[Chris]

Control panel will sit a minimum of 600 feet away if that matters and I'm going with a variable speed

 

[Diehard]

Self priming, it will be sitting on a river bank. I only have access to single phase power and need as much lift as I can possibly get. I have over a hundred feet of lift needed for all my property but will likely need a booster pump to get all the way up. I am irrigating 14 acres.

Oh okay that's making more sense now. I was estimating backwards from the HP, assumed efficiency and was coming out with some fairly high flow vs pressure possibilities.
If you don't get any good feed back here, you should check out a few companies in the irrigation business or even pump suppliers that deal with numerous brands of pumps and pick their brains.
Good luck.

 

[Valveman]

Somebody is filling you full of it if you already think you need a variable speed or VFD. First a VFD will not work with a single phase motor. A VFD will convert your single phase power to three phase, which requires a three phase motor. Second you don't want a self primer. It will be such a flat curve pump you won't be able to slow it down even 2% and still get water up a hundred feet. Plus a self primer only self primes when there is no pressure in the lines. Next what matters about the 600' distance is that a VFD causes reflective waves, and the longer the wire the higher the voltage spikes to the motor. 230V motor being 600' away would get spikes of over 1000V to the motor, which isn't good.

How much pressure do you want at the top of your 100' rise?

You would be much better off with a regular centrifugal pump and a foot valve, using a Cycle Stop Valve and a small pressure tank for control.

 

[Chris]

I would love 50 psi at 100 feet. The only info I have is from the irrigation supply house but they wont give out too much because I backed out of having them do the install. My neighbor is an electrician that will help me with whatever i need and i am a pipeline guy so hopefully we can figure it out.

My goal is to go as big as i can with the power available. I was thinking variable speed thinking it might save a buck on power in the future.

 

[Valveman]

Good thing you are on this forum, you are falling for everything they throw at you. NO, NO, NO, a variable speed will not save energy. Anytime you reduce the speed of a pump you are increasing the energy used per gallon. A pump is always most efficient at full speed. I post a video of a better explanation.

You should be able to get 100-120 GPM at 50 PSI with a 100' rise. A submersible would deliver more than a centrifugal, and you can get a sub up to 15HP in single phase if you have the juice to run it. Electrical and piping is all it is. Just need to research it very well first. And don't go for what the pump manufacturers are pushing unless you want to go the most expensive and least reliable way?

 

[Chris]

According to the power company I can go up to 25 hp. I have to be able to move the pickup as conditions change. The plan was to make it skid mounted and use a soft hose for the pickup. I have to be able to move it from the river bank every winter as it's in a flood area.

I would like a 15hp if it will work, the bigger the better

 

[Valveman]

Rubber suction hose with a foot valve will work. Going to be big and heavy to move. Might consider two 5HP systems to be easier to move. Could throw 2 or 3 of those 5HP submersibles in the lake and add up to the 15 HP you want. Also won't have all your eggs in one basket that way. Here is a pic of a system with two pumps and a rubber suction hose.

 

[Valveman]

Here is one with a couple of 5HP subs on a trailer I made to just roll the pumps down a boat ramp or shallow bank.

 

[Chris]

I will use my backhoe or skid steer to set and pull the skid whatever part goes in the creek I will have to do by hand. I have about a 5 foot drop off past where the skid will set then the water in may and June is moving fast and 6 feet deep, by August it is almost standing still and 2 feet deep. It will be setting next to my neighbors bridge which is an old train car and I am allowed to attach whatever I need to the bridge. I like the idea of submersibles but I'm not sure that will work in my situation. I dont want to have to carry them by hand into the water.

 

[Valveman]

2' of water during the time of year you need it most is not going to be deep enough for a foot valve or a sub. Can you dig a wet well close to the creek? If you can dig a trench from the creek to a wet well a few feet away, you can make the wet well deep enough for a sub or a foot valve, and the 2' of water can fall into the wet well so you have more than 2' to work with. Then you could pull the pump or foot valve straight up with a loader.

 

[chiraldude]

The idea of three 5 hp pumps would satisfy your "variable speed" idea. You could run 1, 2, or all 3 depending on how much flow you needed on a particular day.
Run one power feed for the full current load of 3 motors then put a relay on each for individual control.

 

[Valveman]

Actually two or three 5HP pumps would be much more efficient at low flow rates than a 10HP or 15HP. Multiple pumps are always more efficient than a single large pump trying to do multiple jobs. VFD salesmen will tell you they can take a 15HP down to 1HP load, but they are lying. When maintaining a constant pressure a VFD can only take a 15HP down to about 7.5HP load. Pumps will naturally go from 15HP to 7.5HP load without a VFD. By simply restricting the pump with a valve like a CSV, the horsepower will drop the same way it does if you slowed the pump down with a VFD. No matte if you go with one pump or three, don't fall for the VFD hype.

With three pumps all you need is three pressure switches. Just stagger the pressures a little and the second or third pump will only come on when the first pump isn't enough to handle the job.

 

[Chris]

I dont have much room to dig or access for a tractor down by the water. The location is behind some steel welded fences. I have a 5 foot opening to get in there. I'll have to see how the others have theirs ser up. There is a lot of people pulling from this creek. Why is the shallow an issue? I believe most only have a pickup hose with a strainer basket

 

[Chris]

Actually two or three 5HP pumps would be much more efficient at low flow rates than a 10HP or 15HP. Multiple pumps are always more efficient than a single large pump trying to do multiple jobs. VFD salesmen will tell you they can take a 15HP down to 1HP load, but they are lying. When maintaining a constant pressure a VFD can only take a 15HP down to about 7.5HP load. Pumps will naturally go from 15HP to 7.5HP load without a VFD. By simply restricting the pump with a valve like a CSV, the horsepower will drop the same way it does if you slowed the pump down with a VFD. No matte if you go with one pump or three, don't fall for the VFD hype.

With three pumps all you need is three pressure switches. Just stagger the pressures a little and the second or third pump will only come on when the first pump isn't enough to handle the job.

Would the electrical be much different for the main feed from a 10 or 15 hp? I have a 900 foot run of power from my meter so wire gets expensive

 

[Valveman]

A 15HP would require 000-4 wire, and a 10 HP would need 0-4 wire. Yes that is going to be expensive. Even a 5HP will take #2 wire. But you might be able to run two or three of those 2-4 wires to 5HP pump for less than one string of 000-4 wire for a 15HP. Again not having all your eggs in one basket. Here is a drawing of a wet well.

 

[Chris]

I dont know if I will be able to do a wet well. The property is my neighbors and he is not the most willing to help me with anything. It would require me removing part of his fence and an electrical panel just to get my tractor in that area. Unless I did it by hand.

 

[Valveman]

Gonna be hard to make a suction line work in 2' of water.