Very uneven flange - what should I do?

[filmaj]

Hello everyone,

Long-time lurker first-time poster. Total newbie and not a professional here so bear with me

I bought a home this year (first one!) and in the basement I have a washroom with a toilet. I noticed the toilet was wobbly when we moved in but didn't think much of it until recently. Now that I have a potential tenant coming in, I wanted to fix the issue. I removed the toilet and noticed that the thing around the pipe (closet flange, I think this thing is called?) was _really_ uneven. I have attached pictures of the flange:

1. Flange, top view

2. Flange, side view, lower (1/4") side

3. Flange, side view, higher (5/8") side


The entire unit is above the floor - on the low side, about 1/4", but on the high side: 5/8"! Serious tilt. Before going to get a new wax or rubber seal, I tried to do a 'dry run' of putting the toilet back on but it is indeed wobbly... the toilet does not sit on the floor, so I assume some part of the toilet must be sitting on the flange. Not sure if it's the toilet horn, or maybe even that the flange is so high that the area around the toilet horn is sitting on the flange. Tough for me to say.

The flange opening into the pipe is 2.5". The depressed area around the opening is 3.5". The horn of the toilet has a 2" opening with it being 3" at its widest - here's a pic of the bottom of the toilet:



I chipped away a bunch of the cement stuff around the flange to try to see if I could reseat it. Note that it has 4 screws installed - but 2 are missing, coincidentally on the side that is way higher than the rest (probably not a coincidence). Unfortunately, even with a bunch of the cement removed from underneath the high side of the flange, it doesn't move much. It looks to me like the "inner circle" part of the flange, the part that is closest to the pipe, is already sitting high on the side that is 5/8" above the floor and thus the whole unit, I think, is titled...

My question to you all experts here is: what should I do? I was thinking of removing the flange and installing a new one, but then I realized that the screws are impossible to remove! Not sure what kind of screw or bolt this is - maybe a carriage bolt? There's no way for me to grip it. I tried chipping around one of the screws a bit to see if I could lever off the screw cap - thinking it was just a cap - but that didn't get me anywhere. I don't think this is a cap but part of the screw. I have no idea how this was even installed! Maybe the flange was installed before the tiles were put in? No idea... Anyways here a close up shot of one of the screws:



Last desperation thought I had was: what about sanding the high side of the flange down to try to even this sucker out? This feels like a bad idea. Additionally, the flange has a crack on the outside edge (in the first picture above, it's at about 10 o'clock, a horizontal crack running from about the middle of the wide oval hole to the edge of the flange. So this feels like a replacement job - which I'm not against doing, if only I could get these damn screws out!

Thanks in advance for any help/tips/pointers - really appreciate it!

Cheers,
Fil

 

[Twowaxhack]

You won’t get those anchors out. Those are called pin drive anchors or nail drive anchors.

It consisted of a steel nail that is driven into a lead anchor that expands. It’s permanent.

 

[Geofd]

I have had luck drilling them out, maybe you could grind them off,I have also used a chisel to get them out

 

[Bird Doo Head]

Congratulations on getting your new home, Filmaj!

I'm not a professional plumber, but do have a journeyman's card and worked for several years in the trade, but that was decades ago- before PVC! So below are my amateur suggestions for what you can do. I've done them all on various homes with similar problems.

First release the hold on the flange that the Drive Rivets provide so you can try to level the flange.
As Twowaxhack said, they don't unscrew. First, woth safety eye wear on, try center-punching a dent in the pin & drilling the pin out. You can then get the body out by prying under it. It'll pop right up. (I've removed many thousands of these in my work career- but not on plumbing.)

Another plan is to chisel or grind the heads off while wearing safety eye wear. If you chisel, be sure to keep the chisel very flat so you don't send striking force onto the flange itself. Or you can grind the head off with a rotary tool, such as a Dremmel. You will find that tool useful for many, many jobs around the house. Once the drive rivet's hold on the flange is released, you can ignore the pins that are still in the floor.

Now that the rivets have their heads gone, try to gently level the flange, shimming as needed. If you can, without breaking the crack more, screw it to the floor.

Basic Idea:
The flange is held to the floor. The toilet is held to the flange. With that concept in mind...

Assuming you can't remove the flange from the piping, after removing the drive rivets and leveling the flange as best as you can get it; get a repair flange.
There are three types available in most hardware stores. Guessing you have a Home Depot near by, I swiped photos from the web site to show you some. They're attached.

I've used the one called "Replacement Ring" many times. It screws to the floor & traps the old flange. The closet bolts attach to the flange. Get the stainless steel variety so it won't rust out over time. For this one. the old flange does not have to be secured to the floor. One secures the new ring to the floor, trapping the old flange. Y9ouc an even put shims between the ring & the old flange to compensate and level the new ring.

The one called "Water Closet Repair Flange" is used if the flange is broken where the closet bolts attach. I've used them back when I worked in the trade. Install them in pairs, even if one side isn't broken. The old flange must be secure to the floor for this to work.

The third one, "Hydro Seat", I have never used. I thought I'd post it so you can ask the real plumbers here what they think.

If you can't get the flange level, a no-wax wax ring and some shims for the base of the toilet might get you out of a jam. They have a lot of give side-to-side for uneven floors. I've used the one pictured below on a couple of flanges that weren't level buy about 3/8" on concrete floors. I'm sure it isn't the best option, so ask the plumbers here for the proper way to compensate for uneven flanges.

An idea that may work, but one about which you should ask the plumbers here before proceeding, is a flange that attaches inside your old pipe. One type is pictured below.
Cut off just the flange above the floor, leaving the piping alone. Then use the item called "Open Toilet Flange Replacement". There are many types & pipe diameters of these. It slides into the pipe and the gasket expands by tightening set-screws or twisting the flange- depending on type. Ask the plumbers here first, to be sure this is an acceptable repair.

I hope one of these ideas will get you done with the job quickly & successfully!
Paul

 

[Geofd]

I've used the bottom right and top left mostly the top left