Question about spin-down filter placement

[JEG in Raleigh]

I need to give some background first. I have a freestanding garage with a 1BR guest apartment over it. It is served by its own well. The well was bored 25 years ago and the pressure tank on it is the original pressure tank. It got a new well pump 7 years ago but is used rarely. We bought the property 15 years ago. Anyway, the previous owner had a single 2" diameter GE sediment filter between the pressure tank and the apartment. The pressure tank is in the garage under the heated apartment, so it does not get below freezing in the winter (North Carolina). The well pumps a lot of sediment. It is large particulate and accumulates quickly in the bottom of the sediment filter housing and the filter cartridge is also quickly clogged up. I'm working on upgrading the filtering, adding 2 more cartridge filters that along with the existing cartridge filter, will give me 3 in-line cartridge filters with progressively smaller filtering, down to 5 microns, and I'm adding a Rusco spin-down filter before the 3 cartridge filters.

To begin the installation, I turned off the pump and isolated the pressure tank to drain it. When I drained the tank, I used a 5 gal bucket to catch the draining water and a LOT of the large particulate sediment drained out into the bucket. I turned the pump back on for 20 seconds and drained it again and repeated this process 10 times, with the pump off for 10 minutes in between each time so I didn't overheat the pump. After 10 times, there still was a lot of sediment coming out of the tank. Since it's already 25 years old, I decided to replace the tank and am waiting on the delivery of a new Amtrol Well-X-Trol WX-250 44-gallon pressure tank.

That's the background. Here's my question: Everything I've read says the spin-down filter should be placed immediately after the pressure tank. But that would allow my new pressure tank to fill with sediment like what happened with the old tank. Is there a reason that I cannot place the spin-down filter immediately before the pressure tank.....between the well pump and the pressure tank, so it catches the sediment before it gets to the pressure tank? And if I cannot do that if you know the technical reason of why not, I'd appreciate an explanation so I can understand the physics. Thanks.

 

[Geofd]

Can you put a strainer in front of your filters, it's a brass y shaped fitting with a screen ini it that will pick up the larger stuff, it has a removable bottom so you can clean the screen

 

[wpns]

In fact, if you put the spin down filter in front of your tank, the tank pressure will really help with the spin down effect. Just make sure your spin down filter doesn't get clogged if your pressure switch is on the far side of it, or your pump will get stuck on.

 

[JEG in Raleigh]

In fact, if you put the spin down filter in front of your tank, the tank pressure will really help with the spin down effect. Just make sure your spin down filter doesn't get clogged if your pressure switch is on the far side of it, or your pump will get stuck on.

Thank you wpns. I did not think about the possibility of a clogged filter reducing the pressure and causing the pump to keep running.

 

[JEG in Raleigh]

Can you put a strainer in front of your filters, it's a brass y shaped fitting with a screen ini it that will pick up the larger stuff, it has a removable bottom so you can clean the screenI do have room for a wye strainer. D

Geofd, I do have room for a wye-strainer. Would it have a different effect than a spin-down filter with a larger mesh size? It would seem to me that the spin-down filter would be easier to purge with its ball valve than a wye-strainer where the cap would have to be unscrewed to clean it out. Thank you.

 

[wpns]

Geofd, I do have room for a wye-strainer. Would it have a different effect than a spin-down filter with a larger mesh size? It would seem to me that the spin-down filter would be easier to purge with its ball valve than a wye-strainer where the cap would have to be unscrewed to clean it out. Thank you.

If you have enough sediment that you need a spin down filter, you are going to clog the Y-filter constantly.

I like having an automatic spin down purge valve, but that's more cost/complexity and if it's not used often you may get away with manual purge.

Get some spare parts (housing, mesh, O-rings) so you can swap them out for clean ones during cleaning, to reduce downtime. I just bought a whole spare filter assy, then I had a 'hangar queen' for spares.

 

[wpns]

Thank you wpns. I did not think about the possibility of a clogged filter reducing the pressure and causing the pump to keep running.

Yeah, in an ideal world it goes well pump->pressure switch->spin down filter-> pressure tank but then if it's only somewhat clogged it'll cycle your pump to death, so I'd do well pump->spin down filter->pressure switch on pressure tank and purge the spin down frequently enough to keep it from getting clogged.

 

[Valveman]

Sounds like the well was just never developed properly. Sometimes you have to run a pump for days to get the sediment cleared out of the well. But it needs to be done. The larger sediment will stick in cavities and cracks in the well. The smaller sediment will stick in the larger pieces, and so on. The sediment will make its own media filter and keep more sediment from coming into the well. Then if you still have sediment you can put a filter where ever you think is best, which in my opinion is after the pressure tank.

One thing that stirs up sediment in a well is the pump cycling on and off. When the pump is on the water level drops. When the pump goes off the water level rises. This is surging the well up and down and causing sediment. A 44 gallon size WX250 tank only holds about 10 gallons of water. That means your pump will cycle on and off for every 10 gallons used. Even if the house only uses 300 gallons a day, that is 30 times a day the well has been surged up and down.

 

[JEG in Raleigh]

Thanks, Valveman. I actually have a CSV and Cycle Sensor on my main house well, and a while ago, I gave you the specs on my garage well, hoping to put a CSV on it as well. I provided the depth of the pump, the make and model of the pump, and the static water level, and you calculated the back pressure that would be created when the CSV kicked in. You determined that it would cause 230 PSI of back pressure on the pipe and CSV. I do not have 250# pipe on that well, so I can't add the CSV.

 

[Valveman]

It is rare for pumps to build that much pressure, but that is why we check it. If you cannot add a Cycle Stop Valve, the larger the pressure tank the better. But I would still pump the well out as sediment is not good for the pump either.

 

[JEG in Raleigh]

It is rare for pumps to build that much pressure, but that is why we check it. If you cannot add a Cycle Stop Valve, the larger the pressure tank the better. But I would still pump the well out as sediment is not good for the pump either.

Just to double check to make sure about that back pressure, here is the info on the well and pump that I sent before:

I have a free-standing garage with a 1BR apt. on my property that has its own well. This building and well were on the property when we bought it. The well is 24 years old and was lightly used during that time. The previous owner lived there alone for 6 years, then we rented the place out for 2 more years. That's the extent of the occupancy. I've had it vacant for 12 years and want to get it in shape to rent it again. In 2016 the pump seized (probably from lack of use) and I had it replaced. The pump installer also installed a new brass nipple and 40/60 pressure switch. That pump has been very, very lightly used since its installation, with 30-40 gallons used every few months.

According to the original well report, the 4" diameter bore well depth is 505', the casing depth is 75', the static level is 40', and the yield is only 2 GPM. When the pump was replaced in 2016, the contractor noted that the pump was on 480' of 1" black roll pipe. That pipe was reused with the new pump. The new pump (2016) is a 1hp, 5 GPM Myers. I don't know the model number, but it came with a general Pentair/Myers manual. The pressure tank is in the back corner of the garage and it is a schedule 40 PVC supply line that emerges from the garage floor slab and connects to the pressure tank tee. I'm guessing that pipe exits the building out the back of the building, under the slab, but I don't know this for certain. I'm also guessing that black roll pipe is buried from that exit over to the well, approximately 75 feet away, but I also do not know that for certain.

I have a CSV 1A on my main house well and want to use one on this well. I have 250 psi pipe on my main house but I do not know the rating on the pipe on this garage apartment well, but based on the age of the system and the modest cost of the building, I'm guessing that 160 psi pipe was used.

 

[wpns]

I wonder if your pump is sitting in mud at the bottom of the well, maybe pull it up another 25 feet?

 

[Valveman]

Just the 500' depth will make 216 PSI, so I hope it is not 160# pipe. A 1HP, 5GPM pump with a static of 40' can make 225 PSI. So, 250 PSI pipe would be needed with a CSV, and is needed just because of the 500'. But it is just a 5 GPM pump. So, it doesn't take a very large tank, like a 44 gallon will give you 2 minutes of run time. A CSV is not as helpful with a 5 GPM pump as it is with a 10-25 GPM pump anyway. But the CSV would work fine and deliver strong constant pressure than the big tank will not, if you have 250# pipe in the well.

With that much standing water in the well, raising it up a few feet like wpns said may also be a good idea.

 

[JEG in Raleigh]

I wonder if your pump is sitting in mud at the bottom of the well, maybe pull it up another 25 feet?

Thank you....sounds like a good idea.

 

[JEG in Raleigh]

Just the 500' depth will make 216 PSI, so I hope it is not 160# pipe. A 1HP, 5GPM pump with a static of 40' can make 225 PSI. So, 250 PSI pipe would be needed with a CSV, and is needed just because of the 500'. But it is just a 5 GPM pump. So, it doesn't take a very large tank, like a 44 gallon will give you 2 minutes of run time. A CSV is not as helpful with a 5 GPM pump as it is with a 10-25 GPM pump anyway. But the CSV would work fine and deliver strong constant pressure than the big tank will not, if you have 250# pipe in the well.

With that much standing water in the well, raising it up a few feet like wpns said may also be a good idea.

This is a rookie question.....will the PSI rating of the pipe likely be stenciled or engraved in regular intervals on the wall of the existing PE pipe?